The Bail Out

[tking]

Is this (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/25value.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)a catch-22 or what? If they aren't bailed out, the ripple effect will have dire consequences. If they are bailed out, you can bet the whole of American citizens will feel the repercussions.

What do you all think?

[Tallen]

Is this (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/25value.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)a catch-22 or what? If they aren't bailed out, the ripple effect will have dire consequences. If they are bailed out, you can bet the whole of American citizens will feel the repercussions.

What do you all think?

I don't like the bail out. When my business was taking hits and suffering, no one was there to bail me out. Keep the government out of private business..., that's the best coarse of action and if it was that way now, we wouldn't be in this pickle.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1 Timothy 6:10 KJV)

[raderag]

Is this (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/25value.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)a catch-22 or what? If they aren't bailed out, the ripple effect will have dire consequences. If they are bailed out, you can bet the whole of American citizens will feel the repercussions.

What do you all think?

Even moreso in that the government has created a situation where it is probably true that they need to bail us out.

I'm against it unless there are many checks and balances.

[tking]

I don't like the bail out. When my business was taking hits and suffering, no one was there to bail me out. Keep the government out of private business..., that's the best coarse of action and if it was that way now, we wouldn't be in this pickle.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1 Timothy 6:10 KJV)

Yep, I understand. Contrary to popular belief, the Farm Bill doesn't actually do much for the farmer's. We're at the mercy of the market, and of course, this is effecting the market in a really bad way. You can bet they won't be lining up to pay our fuel bills, fertilizer bills, or feed bills...lol.

[tking]

Even moreso in that the government has created a situation where it is probably true that they need to bail us out.

I'm against it unless there are many checks and balances.

Right, and apparently the checks and balances are what is missing from this bail-out package. Yikes!

[raderag]

Right, and apparently the checks and balances are what is missing from this bail-out package. Yikes!

Why would the administration ask for a limit to their power? They wouldn't. The dem congress better toughen up and get a better deal.

[Athanasius]

Is this (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/25value.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)a catch-22 or what? If they aren't bailed out, the ripple effect will have dire consequences. If they are bailed out, you can bet the whole of American citizens will feel the repercussions.

What do you all think?

I don't know a lot about finance (not my field) except for the "welfare" kind, but from what I gather a bunch of bad mortgage loans were made to those who could afford them least, basically on signatures only. Apparently, countless numbers of these mortgages were even made to illegals (many who have now defaulted). We can lay a lot of this at the feet of the Clinton administration, and to Janet Reno's orders to Fannie and Freddie to prove they were using affirmative action in determining who would get the loans. I remember when I was working for the Department of Labor under the Clinton dynasty. We had all kinds of ways of implementing "affirmative action," and you can bet that if you were a white male, a minority person would be considered ahead of you for any affirmative action postion. We would give monetary incentives to those companies hiring "minorities," and even our largest companies got a big cut of the "affirmative action" incentive monies, trust me!

So, the bad loans were sold to others, and now with defaults, there is no liquidity of funds. I even heard that if this isn't remedied, credit card debt could be called in. It's a mess. I suppose the government has to step in, but I tell you what - these fat cats walking away with (in one case) sevrance pay of $29,000,000 for screwing up our economy is very wrong. McCain is right! And Obama the genius wants to have debates as usual and says to Washington, "call me if you need me." Disgusting.

I wouldn't trust Obama with a five dollar bill at the meat market. He'd buy a $20.00 roast beef and expect you to pay the balance.

[tking]

I don't know a lot about finance (not my field) except for the "welfare" kind, but from what I gather a bunch of bad mortgage loans were made to those who could afford them least, basically on signatures only. Apparently, countless numbers of these mortgages were even made to illegals (many who have now defaulted). We can lay a lot of this at the feet of the Clinton administration, and to Janet Reno's orders to Fannie and Freddie to prove they were using affirmative action in determining who would get the loans. I remember when I was working for the Department of Labor under the Clinton dynasty. We had all kinds of ways of implementing "affirmative action," and you can bet that if you were a white male, a minority person would be considered ahead of you for any affirmative action postion. We would give monetary incentives to those companies hiring "minorities," and even our largest companies got a big cut of the "affirmative action" incentive monies, trust me!

So, the bad loans were sold to others, and now with defaults, there is no liquidity of funds. I even heard that if this isn't remedied, credit card debt could be called in. It's a mess. I suppose the government has to step in, but I tell you what - these fat cats walking away with (in one case) sevrance pay of $29,000,000 for screwing up our economy is very wrong. McCain is right! And Obama the genius wants to have debates as usual and says to Washington, "call me if you need me." Disgusting.

I wouldn't trust Obama with a five dollar bill at the meat market. He'd buy a $20.00 roast beef and expect you to pay the balance.

Yeah, it's definitely a mess, and I've always felt it was the height of irresponsibility to make loans to people that could in no way afford the payment. All that does is set them up for failure and foreclosure (and I have this little voice in my head that says that was the point, so that they could double sell the property). It was only a matter of time. The credit card is the same way. Our younger daughters get offers daily for credit cards as well as short term loans. One is 19, the other is 21. Now that's really the way to start out a life isn't it?

I don't even want to get started on the severance pay thing...good grief.

[TigerBunny]

I don't even want to get started on the severance pay thing...good grief.

The only severance pay these chucklehead should get is a nickle for every licence plate they pound out in the Federal Pen. Once they've paid off the bad loans that way they can go free.

[raderag]

The only severance pay these chucklehead should get is a nickle for every licence plate they pound out in the Federal Pen. Once they've paid off the bad loans that way they can go free.

They would probably figure a way out to build a license plate monopoly.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

I don't know a lot about finance (not my field) except for the "welfare" kind, but from what I gather a bunch of bad mortgage loans were made to those who could afford them least, basically on signatures only. Apparently, countless numbers of these mortgages were even made to illegals (many who have now defaulted). We can lay a lot of this at the feet of the Clinton administration, and to Janet Reno's orders to Fannie and Freddie to prove they were using affirmative action in determining who would get the loans. I remember when I was working for the Department of Labor under the Clinton dynasty. We had all kinds of ways of implementing "affirmative action," and you can bet that if you were a white male, a minority person would be considered ahead of you for any affirmative action postion. We would give monetary incentives to those companies hiring "minorities," and even our largest companies got a big cut of the "affirmative action" incentive monies, trust me!

So, the bad loans were sold to others, and now with defaults, there is no liquidity of funds. I even heard that if this isn't remedied, credit card debt could be called in. It's a mess. I suppose the government has to step in, but I tell you what - these fat cats walking away with (in one case) sevrance pay of $29,000,000 for screwing up our economy is very wrong. McCain is right! And Obama the genius wants to have debates as usual and says to Washington, "call me if you need me." Disgusting.

I wouldn't trust Obama with a five dollar bill at the meat market. He'd buy a $20.00 roast beef and expect you to pay the balance.

Right Athanasius.

I totally believe you on the welfare state stuff.

You sound like you listen to Rush like I do.

The disgusting thing is that we deposit our money in to a bank, the bank takes 90% of it and makes a loan on the basis of govt. mandated affirmative action, and the load defaults, and our money is locked up in a huge home that few people can afford and will be worth far less than it cost to build it. So, there you get the government to step in and bail out the FDIC insured banks, so the private mortgage industry is blamed
and government socialists and marxists can step in and take over the mortgage business. And then they can place their own restrictions on who can and who can't get a mortgage loan.

Can you say "sign of the beast".

[Yodas_Prodigy]

My Congressman is home today and was on TV. He voted against it. He said that there was buried in the document credit card forgiveness and other easy forgiveness debts.

He did not like what was happening to the tax payer. He wanted language similar to the S & L Bail out.

He was also against giving the Secretary of the Treasuring Carte Blanch Control of $700B without any oversight.

[raderag]

My Congressman is home today and was on TV. He voted against it. He said that there was buried in the document credit card forgiveness and other easy forgiveness debts.

He did not like what was happening to the tax payer. He wanted language similar to the S & L Bail out.

He was also against giving the Secretary of the Treasuring Carte Blanch Control of $700B without any oversight.


I wish I had my own congressman.

[Tallen]

I wish I had my own congressman.

You couldn't afford the lobbiest to get him to do something. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZSYYYYYYYYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb098_ZSYYYYYYYYUS&utm_id=7926)

[Athanasius]

And why isn't McCain making more of an issue with the disastrous ACORN connection? For crying out loud, Obama was a "trainer" for this outfit - and they are a left-wing Marxist group which intimidates banks into making bad mortgages with minority folks based on the social engineering laws in place since Reno and the Clinton Administraton. If banks don't comply, ACORN strong arms the bank president, etc., threatening law suits for non-complaince. This is one of the basic reasons we now have to buy up a lot of bad mortgages for billions - when you loan money on a signature only, what do you expect? And why should we bail out those people who signed their names to mortgages they couldn't afford and pretty much knew they'd default on. Nobody gave me a free ride as far as our mortgage goes. But we moved into a modest home which my husband fixed up, not a McMansion in some gated community? We have javelina patrolling our property, not paid security.

ACORN and Obama's particpation in this despicable group should be a major talking point for McCain, but he just doesn't seem to want to speak out. If he doesn't, we can all look forward to paying higher taxes under the Obama administration, because all these new "freebies" he wants to put in place are going to cost us big time.

[raderag]

And why isn't McCain making more of an issue with the disastrous ACORN connection?

Because, despite what those in talk radio say, the republicans have alot of culpability also.

Democrats give tax money to one set of groups, and Republicans to another.

[Athanasius]

Because, despite what those in talk radio say, the republicans have alot of culpability also.

Democrats give tax money to one set of groups, and Republicans to another.

I thought of that as well (why McCain doesn't speak out more). Everything seems to be interconnected.

However, this ACORN outfit is so far out there, so left wing, that if just has me wondering exactly why the administration's first proposal contained a lot of money for them - what was that all about? To keep them quiet?

[raderag]

I thought of that as well (why McCain doesn't speak out more). Everything seems to be interconnected.

However, this ACORN outfit is so far out there, so left wing, that if just has me wondering exactly why the administration's first proposal contained a lot of money for them - what was that all about? To keep them quiet?

Probably to get votes for the bill.

[bartalonis]

I have emailed, called, and sent letters to both of my senators and my representative everyday this week.

I sent this to Gingrey a while ago:

Dear Congressman Gingrey,

First of all, I want to thank you very much for not voting for the Wall Street Bailout legislation that came before the House of Representatives earlier this week. This bailout is blatantly unconstitutional and I believe that you understand this in both your heart and mind. It is welfare for the rich; it is socialism; it is communism; it is against everything our founding fathers held dear; it is unsound business because it rewards people who have made unwise decisions in our once free economic system. It is a reward for the very people that have caused the problem. It will not solve the problem because it does not strike at the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is the Federal Reserve System that has replaced our once sound money with a currency that has a total fiat base. 95% of our money is based totally on debt. The Federal Reserve System cannot be properly controlled and regulated by the Congress or any other government agency. Our founding fathers gave our representatives the sole responsibility of coining money and regulating the value of it. They certainly never intended for the representatives to turn this responsibility over to some sort of quasi-governmental agency that is controlled by bankers. The regional banks are even owned by the bankers. Congress must undo what it did in 1913 and return our monetary system to the Congress by abolishing the FED and also abolishing fractional reserve banking. It is a house of cards and apparently is fixing to come crashing down on everyone’s head. It causes booms and busts, it devalues our money giving rise to inflation, and it gives congress access to all sorts of fiat currency which invariably causes all sorts of unconstitutional spending which results in deficits that were unimaginable a few years ago.

The Glass-Steagall Act should be reinstated. Congress should never have allowed this act to be stricken down back in 1999. The Uptick rule that was abolished last year should be reinstated. Our constitution should be followed in all cases including remedies for this disaster. We should not succumb to fear and change our republican form of government.

Sir, I respectfully praise and congratulate your courage for standing up for the people the other day. Unfortunately, I know that you must be under great pressure to vote for the Senate's package should they pass it this evening. Please stand up for the people, the states, the constitution, and the republic again and vote NO on any bailout for Wall Street.

Sincerely,
bart [used my name of course]

Two of the greatest heroes of our republic, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson, killed the first two central banks; Jefferson killed the first and Jackson killed the second one. Jefferson told us that if we ever allowed another central bank to be set up then the central bank and all of the corporations that grew up around it would eventually destroy our republic and enslave us on the very shores where they won our freedom.

It is far past time when all Americans should come to understand what fiat money and central banking is all about. It is based purely on debt. You can go to this page to read a good summary of what cenral banks and fractional reserve banking is all about. BTW, I send people to this page because it is a good summarry of G. Edward Griffin's book The Creature From Jekyll Island. It is the 10th chapter in the book. I have read the book twice. I have not looked at the rest of the site so I don't vouch for anything on the site itself.

Jefferson once said that no man deserves the occupation of money lender except for those who have money to lend. Obviously, he was not talking about fiat money. He was talking about real money. If we take 1913 as the reference year and say that a 1913 dollar was worth 1 dollar then our present dollar is worth about 4 cents.

The present crisis is caused by much more than worthless mortgages. At least a mortgage has a house as colateral. The crisis is a disaster of major proportions and a bailout will reward those who caused the crisis and put them in control as well. The problem is all of the trillions of dollars of worthless derivatives that have been put into the financial system. You don't want the American taxpayers to even come close to underwriting this stuff. 700bn is chicken feed compared to the real problem. You can't sweep this under the rug because it will not go away. There are real economic laws at work here. Here are two links:

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=3993

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=781

The top one is chapter 10 in griffin's book. The 2nd one is Daryl Castle's (the VP candidate of the CP) proposed solution. Please research the FED and also research the real problems in this finacial crisis. Just remember that Paulson was the prior CEO of Goldman Sachs.

I don't claim to be an economist; however, I have done a little reading. Bernanke even admits the FRS caused the Great Depression. Many of our founding fathers loathed central banks and fractional reserve banking. Virtually every dollar that comes into being comes from a dollar being borrowed. It is essentually money created out of thin air. Our money is nothing but debt.

Considering what God thought of usury what would He think of charging interest on money that was created out of thin air?

I know that you don't like posts like this but I am very concerned about what is going on and very few people understand the FED, fractional reserve banking, and fiat currency. Again, I'm no expert. I am only humbly asking that you research these things. We are saddling our chidren and grandchildren with mountains of debt. God forgive us.

bartalonis

[tking]

You echoed the very thing I was listening to on the radio the other day....that is that our country's economy is based on credit. That's a scary thing.

It sounds to me like you've done more than just a little studying. This was very interesting. Thanks!