Consider these things when voting

[Joe S]

A good article (http://randyalcorn.blogspot.com/2008/10/im-not-voting-for-man-im-voting-for.html)

[JBaker45]

Yep... Innocent lives could be spared if votes are not wasted.

[raderag]

A good article (http://randyalcorn.blogspot.com/2008/10/im-not-voting-for-man-im-voting-for.html)

The thing is, if they have the right view on abortion, they are likely to have the right view on many other things.

[Tallen]

This article is nothing more than appealing to emotion for political gain. The fact of the matter is this country has been aborting babies under RvW for over 35 years now and we have had the same politics propagated with no gain. The way to get action is to send the message, via the ballet box, that we are no longer willing to take politics with the same results of stalemate and ineffective means. It is now time to start changing, through our votes, and get rid of those that are willing to pander to partisan politics and give us another 25 years of no change.

Obama and McCain are entrenched in their political agenda's and personal goals, and with either one we will get yet another Presidency that will not make any difference on this issue. The simple fact that is bore out through history is that we will not see any significant change if we elect another President from either major party. We have already suffered with the same promises for 35 years.

We need to start thinking long term and change the way politics are working in America now so that we can effect change in the future.

[bartalonis]

I was listening to a conservative Christian radio program (Crosstalk America I believe) and they had as a guest one of the toughest and most active pro life organizations on (cannot recall the group). This person was angry at some of the other pro life groups because they were making a big deal about the victory where the practice of partial birth abortions was overturned. The reason that he was angry was that he said that what they had done would not prevent the partial birth abortions. He said that it merely told the doctors how to use a slitely different technique that would be allowed.

There are suppose to be 3 co-equal branches of our governement. What we need is a president that will take a very strong stand against abortion and even resort to executive orders if need be. One argument, obviously, is that you are denying life liberty and the pursuit of happiness to a human being when the child is aborted. A president has a lot of power when he really wants to use it on a certain issue. I personally think that a lot of politicians make out that they are trying to stop abortion when they are really not trying all that hard.

bartalonis

[JBaker45]

Brother,

With a republican in the white house, we have a chance at correcting the damage that has been done by the liberal supreme court.

With Obama in the white house, we can expect more liberal judges to be placed on the bench, and we will not have another opportunity to correct the situation for some 30+ years to come after that.

[raderag]

I was listening to a conservative Christian radio program (Crosstalk America I believe) and they had as a guest one of the toughest and most active pro life organizations on (cannot recall the group). This person was angry at some of the other pro life groups because they were making a big deal about the victory where the practice of partial birth abortions was overturned. The reason that he was angry was that he said that what they had done would not prevent the partial birth abortions. He said that it merely told the doctors how to use a slitely different technique that would be allowed.

There are suppose to be 3 co-equal branches of our governement. What we need is a president that will take a very strong stand against abortion and even resort to executive orders if need be. One argument, obviously, is that you are denying life liberty and the pursuit of happiness to a human being when the child is aborted. A president has a lot of power when he really wants to use it on a certain issue. I personally think that a lot of politicians make out that they are trying to stop abortion when they are really not trying all that hard.

bartalonis

Then again, if a simple majority rose up in 3/4 of the states, we could protect all of the unborn.

[Tallen]

Then again, if a simple majority rose up in 3/4 of the states, we could protect all of the unborn.

And what would McCain being President benefit if that happened? Nothing.

[Tallen]

Brother,

With a republican in the white house, we have a chance at correcting the damage that has been done by the liberal supreme court.

With Obama in the white house, we can expect more liberal judges to be placed on the bench, and we will not have another opportunity to correct the situation for some 30+ years to come after that.

Let's see..., since RvW we have had, 5 Republican Presidents, for a total of 26 of the last 38 years . And RvW was imposed under one of them. We have had 2 Democrats. It seems that the Republicans are far less influencial than most realize and haven't done what they have said they would.

John, partisan politics don't work and a radical change is needed.

[raderag]

And what would McCain being President benefit if that happened? Nothing.

Ted, I agree. What I am saying is that blaming the courts and politicians isn't right when the people haven't done anything about it.

[raderag]

Let's see..., since RvW we have had, 5 Republican Presidents, for a total of 26 of the last 38 years . And RvW was imposed under one of them. We have had 2 Democrats. It seems that the Republicans are far less influencial than most realize and haven't done what they have said they would.

John, partisan politics don't work and a radical change is needed.

Ted, in '92 there was a 5-4 decision against overturning RvW.

[Tallen]

Ted, I agree. What I am saying is that blaming the courts and politicians isn't right when the people haven't done anything about it.

I absolutely positively agree, Brett. Amen, Amen. :bigtup:

[Tallen]

Ted, in '92 there was a 5-4 decision against overturning RvW.

Yes, and that was after having two consecutive Republican Presidents.

[Joe S]

Ted, I was just trying to get people to consider that this country has been about the business of systematically slaughtering over 1 million people a year, because they are inconvenient to people's sexual freedom. I can't imagine how a Christian can cast a vote for a person who gives hardy approval to butchering millions of babies. But obviously, looking at the congress, most professing Christians don't give a crap about abortion or either approve of it.

[JBaker45]

Let's see..., since RvW we have had, 5 Republican Presidents, for a total of 26 of the last 38 years . And RvW was imposed under one of them. We have had 2 Democrats. It seems that the Republicans are far less influencial than most realize and haven't done what they have said they would.

John, partisan politics don't work and a radical change is needed.
Again Ted, it's the composition of the court that matters.

When the opportunity comes to effect that composition, we need to have a conservative doing the pickin'

[Tallen]

Again Ted, it's the composition of the court that matters.

John, the courts are not to establish law, but to enforce it. I agree that those that sit on the court are important, but out of the last 38 years, I doubt that there is a justice that has sat on the Supreme Courts bench for that long. And all of the judges have been changed. And for the great majority of those years, since RvW, the Presidency has been Republican.

The President can recommend (nominate) a judge, but there is a political process that follows. There is a long history of judges being rejected in the process.

BTW John, Harriet Miers was nominated by George W and conservatives balked at that idea. Under the heat of the pursuing debate she withdrew her nomination. The point, Bush appointed a political "crony" not the right person to end RvW.


When the opportunity comes to effect that composition, we need to have a conservative doing the pickin'

That's what we have had out of the last 7 Presidents, 5 being conservative. None have been effective in overturning RvW, and history has shown that conservative judges are hard to bring to the court. If we are going to overturn RvW, it's not through the Presidency, but rather by political activism and pressure from the constituencies of the Congress at the state level.

[raderag]

Yes, and that was after having two consecutive Republican Presidents.

Ted, remember that Reagan appointed Bork, who got Borked by the dems. He then put in Saundra Day Oconer. Well, what happened there?

[Tallen]

Ted, remember that Reagan appointed Bork, who got Borked by the dems.

Yeah, that was a mess. Bork should have been placed if we are going to use the political propaganda that we should elect Presidents based upon who they will appoint to the court. But that is a good case in point. Reagan who I would consider a good President appoints a consevative (Bork) and ends up with a moderte (O'Connor).


He then put in Saundra Day Oconer. Well, what happened there?

She was a consevative some of the time and voted along with Rehnquist most of the time. She opposed Thomas all the time, I think. :bigthink:

BTW, I remember that the Pro-Lifers were agianst her being nominated. Remember that?

[tking]

If we are going to overturn RvW, it's not through the Presidency, but rather by political activism and pressure from the constituencies of the Congress at the state level.

When I was helping my daughter with her Government class a couple of years ago, it seemed to me that special interest groups were what got most things done. I was a little bit surprised by how much influence they held.

[raderag]

Yeah, that was a mess. Bork should have been placed if we are going to use the political propaganda that we should elect Presidents based upon who they will appoint to the court. But that is a good case in point. Reagan who I would consider a good President appoints a consevative (Bork) and ends up with a moderte (O'Connor).



She was a consevative some of the time and voted along with Rehnquist most of the time. She opposed Thomas all the time, I think. :bigthink:

BTW, I remember that the Pro-Lifers were agianst her being nominated. Remember that?

She was one of the deciding votes against the overturning of RvW in the 90s.

[Tallen]

When I was helping my daughter with her Government class a couple of years ago, it seemed to me that special interest groups were what got most things done. I was a little bit surprised by how much influence they held.

Therein lays the problem. When you see that the big lobbyist are special interest folks like the medical, insurance and financial areas. It is easy to see why certain issues won't get changed. Most of those areas are dominated by liberal thinking folks and they supply a lot of money to the political process that is "taking care" of those they lobby.

The President is a pee-on or is that a peon in that process. :BigB:

[Tallen]

She was one of the deciding votes against the overturning of RvW in the 90s.

Sometimes. Are you familiar with the Webster Case, she said she would not overthrow RvW.

"She received the most attention, however, for a case in 1989, Webster vs. Reproductive Health Services which restricted access to abortions in certain cases. Justice O'Connor was the deciding vote. The 5 to 4 decision upheld the law giving states the right to make specific abortion decisions. Conservatives had hoped that her swing vote in this case would lead to further restrictions on abortions and a repeal of the famous Roe Vs. Wade. Justice O'Connor would not go that far, however, and Roe vs. Wade has not been overturned." SEE HERE (http://phoenix.about.com/cs/famous/a/oconnor.htm)

[tking]

The President is a pee-on or is that a peon in that process.

LOL!! Oh my goodness. Kinda hard to tell, eh?

Ugh...the medical and insurance thing makes even doctors nuts. It's that way in every aspect of the lawmaking process it seems. One long revolving door event that has one hand feeding the other over and over again.

[Tallen]

Ugh...the medical and insurance thing makes even doctors nuts. It's that way in every aspect of the lawmaking process it seems. One long revolving door event that has one hand feeding the other over and over again.

It is disheartening to the average American citizen and Joe the plumbers. It seems we have lost our voice, to be honest. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZSYYYYYYYYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb114_ZSYYYYYYYYUS&utm_id=7922)

[tking]

It is disheartening to the average American citizen and Joe the plumbers. It seems we have lost our voice, to be honest. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZSYYYYYYYYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb114_ZSYYYYYYYYUS&utm_id=7922)

Oh we've definitely lost our voice. The average American and Joe the plumbers or John the farmers are seen as uneducated simpletons who don't really know what it's all about and don't deserve to have a voice.

Used to, an honest, hardworking, good ole boy, who was ethical and had integrity was something to be admired. Now they're/we're seen as naive, crude, not PC, and just plain disrespected.

In some ways, this economic breakdown may be just the thing our country needed. Maybe people will begin to get back to the basics and what real democracy and our freedoms are all about. One can always hope.

[Tallen]

Oh we've definitely lost our voice. The average American and Joe the plumbers or John the farmers are seen as uneducated simpletons who don't really know what it's all about and don't deserve to have a voice.

Used to, an honest, hardworking, good ole boy, who was ethical and had integrity was something to be admired. Now they're/we're seen as naive, crude, not PC, and just plain disrespected.

In some ways, this economic breakdown may be just the thing our country needed. Maybe people will begin to get back to the basics and what real democracy and our freedoms are all about. One can always hope.

Yep, I agree. :bigtup:

[JBaker45]

John, the courts are not to establish law, but to enforce it.
Yet reality shows us that the liberal justices choose to reinterpret that law.

This is why we need to keep conservative justices on the court.

[Tallen]

Yet reality shows us that the liberal justices choose to reinterpret that law.

This is why we need to keep conservative justices on the court.

I agree. Presidents are not how that is going to happen though. :bigO:

[JBaker45]

I agree. Presidents are not how that is going to happen though. :bigO:
Ted, the president is the one how makes the appointment - yes?

[Tallen]

Ted, the president is the one how makes the appointment - yes?

I have already answered this. History shows that Presidents are more apt to appoint moderates, they get through the process easier.

[JBaker45]

I have already answered this. History shows that Presidents are more apt to appoint moderates, they get through the process easier.
History shows that a liberal House, Senate and President have nothing to hold them back.

[Tallen]

History shows that a liberal House, Senate and President have nothing to hold them back.

Not sure what you mean John.

BTW, we're down to the wire now. :bigthink:

[Tallen]

Ted, I was just trying to get people to consider that this country has been about the business of systematically slaughtering over 1 million people a year, because they are inconvenient to people's sexual freedom. I can't imagine how a Christian can cast a vote for a person who gives hardy approval to butchering millions of babies. But obviously, looking at the congress, most professing Christians don't give a crap about abortion or either approve of it.

Yep, I agree Joe. This is not an issue that most Christians are being heard on, I think it just plain ol' apathy. Maybe if they were killing babies on an alter in the center of town there might be some real voices then. But business as usual politics is not getting the job done.