I am grieving for what may be ahead

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Our country may on the verge of reaping much of what it has sown.

"Lord, have mercy on me, my family, and my friends."

[Tallen]

Our country may on the verge of reaping much of what it has sown.

"Lord, have mercy on me, my family, and my friends."

I wouldn't place so much on the ability of folks, if you mean what is happening politically.

One thing I have learned is that God can change the direction of a country or the world virtually over night. I remember when the Berlin wall came down, it was something that I didn't expect to happen in my lifetime. I wouldn't give up hope yet, Joe.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV)

I'm convinced Joe, we won't change our nation through the election process, history has shown that to be a most ineffective way. Change comes when the people of God seek Him and cry out of mercy, justice and peace. :bigtup:

[TigerBunny]

I wouldn't place so much on the ability of folks, if you mean what is happening politically.

One thing I have learned is that God can change the direction of a country or the world virtually over night. I remember when the Berlin wall came down, it was something that I didn't expect to happen in my lifetime. I wouldn't give up hope yet, Joe.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV)

I'm convinced Joe, we won't change our nation through the election process, history has shown that to be a most ineffective way. Change comes when the people of God seek Him and cry out of mercy, justice and peace. :bigtup:

And it just may be that either of these men will be what this country needs to cry out to God. Still...prayer for and among the saints is a good thing so I'll join ya.

Blessings

[Tallen]

And it just may be that either of these men will be what this country needs to cry out to God. Still...prayer for and among the saints is a good thing so I'll join ya.

Blessings

Well, my daughter keeps telling me that Obama is the Antichrist and we are heading down the road or destruction. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

I keep telling her to have faith in God, because there are millions of saints world-wide that are praying for this country. I suspect that their voices are not being ignored.






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[Yodas_Prodigy]

He is not THE Anti-Christ. He is An ANTI-CHRIST.



Well, my daughter keeps telling me that Obama is the Antichrist and we are heading down the road or destruction. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

I keep telling her to have faith in God, because there are millions of saints world-wide that are praying for this country. I suspect that their voices are not being ignored.






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZSYYYYYYYYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZSYYYYYYYYUS&utm_id=7924)

[Tallen]

He is not THE Anti-Christ. He is An ANTI-CHRIST.

There are many.

[Swordman53]

Well, my daughter keeps telling me that Obama is the Antichrist and we are heading down the road or destruction.

I keep telling her to have faith in God, because there are millions of saints world-wide that are praying for this country. I suspect that their voices are not being ignored.

I do not see either candidate as demonic. Both of these men are professing Christians.

My concern would be that one or the other will follow a wrong path with good intentions.

[Tallen]

My concern would be that one or the other will follow a wrong path with good intentions.

I am convicted (convinced) that either man will follow the wrong path with good intentions. :bigthink:

[Yodas_Prodigy]

I do not see either candidate as demonic. Both of these men are professing Christians.


Not trying to be arrogant, I know a whole lot more about this than you do. BO is no Christian. I can gladly point you to lot's of his comments that are reflective of who he is.

i.e. Voted 100% in support of Planned Parent Hood, Supports Gay Marriage, Shared an address with Ayers for three years, is a Muslim based on the required daily prayer that he embraced and partook in while in school, he mocks use of the Bible and which part should we use. He supports a Socialistic agenda which is also anti-Christ.

I can go on.

[Swordman53]

Not trying to be arrogant, I know a whole lot more about this than you do. BO is no Christian. I can gladly point you to lot's of his comments that are reflective of who he is.

i.e. Voted 100% in support of Planned Parent Hood, Supports Gay Marriage, Shared an address with Ayers for three years, is a Muslim based on the required daily prayer that he embraced and partook in while in school, he mocks use of the Bible and which part should we use. He supports a Socialistic agenda which is also anti-Christ.

I can go on.
Please do.

Are you suggesting that we should equate Christianity with Capitalism? (I am a devote capitalist, btw.)

Can you tell me how any true Muslim could support Gay marriage?

[Tallen]

Are you suggesting that we should equate Christianity with Capitalism?


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/im/02.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS) Not with capitalism, but by the words that come out of their mouths.

Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. (Matthew 15:17-20 KJV)

We could start with the evil thoughts, murders, thefts, false witness and blasphemies.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Please do.

Are you suggesting that we should equate Christianity with Capitalism? (I am a devote capitalist, btw.)

Can you tell me how any true Muslim could support Gay marriage?

First, Capitalism is a Judeo/Christian idea. In socialism and communism everything belongs to everybody. So "Thou shall not steal" does not fit in to that belief system. Abraham was given land. Therefore, he owns it.

As far as gay marriage, Muslims have a track record of doing whatever it takes to get power. (i.e. Killing their not so extreme followers and then blaming the enemy.) I also know that Mr. Obama has serious connections with Black Power Organizations.

When Muslims were invading Europe, a sword would be placed next to your neck and you were expected to say the same prayer that BO said in his classroom every day. If you did not say it or if you said it without conviction, you were killed.

Please consider my points...

[Swordman53]

First, Capitalism is a Judeo/Christian idea. In socialism and communism everything belongs to everybody. So "Thou shall not steal" does not fit in to that belief system. Abraham was given land. Therefore, he owns it.

As far as gay marriage, Muslims have a track record of doing whatever it takes to get power. (i.e. Killing their not so extreme followers and then blaming the enemy.) I also know that Mr. Obama has serious connections with Black Power Organizations.

When Muslims were invading Europe, a sword would be placed next to your neck and you were expected to say the same prayer that BO said in his classroom every day. If you did not say it or if you said it without conviction, you were killed.

Please consider my points...
So are you saying Barack may have been coerced to say the prayers? Or are you saying that he is pretending to be a Christian?

While I am not an advocate of either Planned Parenthood or abortion, I know of confessing Christians with no ties to Islam that are.

Have you ever talked to a devote muslim about their faith and whether they would willingly advocate gay marriage for political gain?

Do you think Christians are innocent of violence?

What makes you think capitalism, a economic philosophy based on self-interest, is Christian?

[Julie]

So are you saying Barack may have been coerced to say the prayers? Or are you saying that he is pretending to be a Christian?

While I am not an advocate of either Planned Parenthood or abortion, I know of confessing Christians with no ties to Islam that are.

Have you ever talked to a devote muslim about their faith and whether they would willingly advocate gay marriage for political gain?

Do you think Christians are innocent of violence?

What makes you think capitalism, a economic philosophy based on self-interest, is Christian?

Do you know that Muslims practice Taqiya? It is ok to lie to promote Islam. Many muslims are for abortion b/c they see it as a way to gain over westerners via numbers. They themselves wouldn't have an abortion, but encourage their "enemies" to do so.

If a person says the Shahada one time, they are considered a Muslim.

All that being said, I don't know if Obama is a Muslim. If he said the Shahada one time he is considered a muslim. It is odd that no fatwa has been issued against him since he now claims the name of Christ. Fatwas against Mickey Mouse, but not against a person who wants to be President of the most powerful country in the world? Either he is not a Muslim; or he is but is hiding it until he gets in power. I suspect the former myself.

[Swordman53]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/im/02.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS) Not with capitalism, but by the words that come out of their mouths.

Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. (Matthew 15:17-20 KJV)

We could start with the evil thoughts, murders, thefts, false witness and blasphemies.
Are you suggesting that either candidate has done this?

[raderag]

First, Capitalism is a Judeo/Christian idea. .

Adam Smith would be surprised to hear this.

[raderag]

This whole thread is silly.

Obama is not a Muslim, even if he is considered so by Muslim teachings.

Obama is a liberal (neo-orthodox) Christian. Is he converted? His views on abortion and gay marriage would lead one to believe no, but he is no Muslim.

Just because he was raised in a Muslim school, doesn't mean he is a Muslim.

[TigerBunny]

Are you suggesting that either candidate has done this?

Are you suggesting either candidate hasn't done this? Last I checked we are all guilty of this stuff. The question then becomes are either of these men practicing such things.

[Swordman53]

Are you suggesting either candidate hasn't done this? Last I checked we are all guilty of this stuff. The question then becomes are either of these men practicing such things.
I am speaking in terms of the campaign. Frankly, I think both could have run a cleaner campaign.

But we seem to have a conspiracy mentality at work with Obama. I think the evidence is wanting.

[TigerBunny]

This whole thread is silly.

Obama is not a Muslim, even if he is considered so by Muslim teachings.

Obama is a liberal (neo-orthodox) Christian. Is he converted? His views on abortion and gay marriage would lead one to believe no, but he is no Muslim.

Just because he was raised in a Muslim school, doesn't mean he is a Muslim.

Nah...I don't think he's a Muslim. I think if it would get him votes and the American public would stomach it he'd convert in a heartbeat...but he's not a Muslim.

[TigerBunny]

I am speaking in terms of the campaign. Frankly, I think both could have run a cleaner campaign.

But we seem to have a conspiracy mentality at work with Obama. I think the evidence is wanting.

That's politics. :shocked:

[Tallen]

Are you suggesting that either candidate has done this?

Yes, both and many more have done these types of things. Especially when it comes to the 9th Command.

[Athanasius]

Well, my daughter keeps telling me that Obama is the Antichrist and we are heading down the road or destruction. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

I keep telling her to have faith in God, because there are millions of saints world-wide that are praying for this country. I suspect that their voices are not being ignored.







http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZSYYYYYYYYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZSYYYYYYYYUS&utm_id=7924)



Your daughter may not be far from the mark!

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Do you know that Muslims practice Taqiya? It is ok to lie to promote Islam. Many muslims are for abortion b/c they see it as a way to gain over westerners via numbers. They themselves wouldn't have an abortion, but encourage their "enemies" to do so.
If a person says the Shahada one time, they are considered a Muslim.

All that being said, I don't know if Obama is a Muslim. If he said the Shahada one time he is considered a muslim. It is odd that no fatwa has been issued against him since he now claims the name of Christ. Fatwas against Mickey Mouse, but not against a person who wants to be President of the most powerful country in the world? Either he is not a Muslim; or he is but is hiding it until he gets in power. I suspect the former myself.

Thanks Julie, I forgot what these two were called...:medium-smiley-010:

[Yodas_Prodigy]

This whole thread is silly.

Obama is not a Muslim, even if he is considered so by Muslim teachings.

Obama is a liberal (neo-orthodox) Christian. Is he converted? His views on abortion and gay marriage would lead one to believe no, but he is no Muslim.

Just because he was raised in a Muslim school, doesn't mean he is a Muslim.

If a person says the Shahada one time, they are considered a Muslim. Do you remember the George Stephanopolus interview with BO when he slipped and said, "My Muslim faith..." and George corrected him? I don't know about you, but I don't ever think that I could make that mistake...Hey, I guess that was just a SILLY MISTAKE....:shocked:

[Julie]

Thanks Julie, I forgot what these two were called...:medium-smiley-010:

hehe...you're welcome.

If all the tauntings of the Muslims online were believable, Obama is a Muslim. They are cheering and taunting American Christians with Obama's win. :medium-smiley-113:

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

[Swordman53]

If a person says the Shahada one time, they are considered a Muslim. Do you remember the George Stephanopolus interview with BO when he slipped and said, "My Muslim faith..." and George corrected him? I don't know about you, but I don't ever think that I could make that mistake...Hey, I guess that was just a SILLY MISTAKE....:shocked:
If it is the same video I saw, Barack actually corrected this himself. The discussion was on the perception that people had that he was a muslim and he had meant to say "my supposed muslim faith."

Context is everything in terms of definition.

[Joe S]

I think you are absolutely correct that we are reaping what we have sown. We as a nation are bearing the consequences of the dark exchange that Romans 1 speaks of.

Some things I fear most about Obama are 1. He will overturn all state and federal restrictions on abortion. 2. He will overturn all state restrictions on same sex couples and "marriage". 3. He will push for federal "hate crimes" legislation which is essentially telling you what you can think. This will be targeted at Christians for speaking against homosexuality and false religions, making evangelism a crime. 4. Semi-auto ban, handgun ban, mandatory national registration for all firearms. 5. "Fairness" act silencing all public speaking out against the government. 6. Government will have permanent voting majority in financial institutions, energy corporations and the auto industry. It's a government hostile takeover of private enterprize. 7. Activist judges with Marxist ideologies. 8. Cabinet level positions will be solid Marxists. 9. Federally imposed mandatory universal standards for education, including curriculum mandates which will make home schools and christian schools illegal. 10. Submission to international laws so Europe gets to tell us what to do.

All in all, European style global progressive socialism. You may think it far fetched, but I think this whole global initiative is after the power of Satan and is targeted at the gospel. The goal is silencing the gospel. The rest is just means to that end. Come Lord Jesus. I was depressed, but I remembered that we have an eternal inheritence that makes the sufferings in this present age a very small thing. That's the true hope we can trust. That will be the change we need. Perhaps this is God's way of waking up Christians in America to that reality, to stop looking to worldly things for security, and start looking at Christ.

[Swordman53]

I think you are absolutely correct that we are reaping what we have sown. We as a nation are bearing the consequences of the dark exchange that Romans 1 speaks of.

Some things I fear most about Obama are 1. He will overturn all state and federal restrictions on abortion. 2. He will overturn all state restrictions on same sex couples and "marriage". 3. He will push for federal "hate crimes" legislation which is essentially telling you what you can think. This will be targeted at Christians for speaking against homosexuality and false religions, making evangelism a crime. 4. Semi-auto ban, handgun ban, mandatory national registration for all firearms. 5. "Fairness" act silencing all public speaking out against the government. 6. Government will have permanent voting majority in financial institutions, energy corporations and the auto industry. It's a government hostile takeover of private enterprize. 7. Activist judges with Marxist ideologies. 8. Cabinet level positions will be solid Marxists. 9. Federally imposed mandatory universal standards for education, including curriculum mandates which will make home schools and christian schools illegal. 10. Submission to international laws so Europe gets to tell us what to do.

All in all, European style global progressive socialism. You may think it far fetched, but I think this whole global initiative is after the power of Satan and is targeted at the gospel. The goal is silencing the gospel. The rest is just means to that end. Come Lord Jesus. I was depressed, but I remembered that we have an eternal inheritence that makes the sufferings in this present age a very small thing. That's the true hope we can trust. That will be the change we need. Perhaps this is God's way of waking up Christians in America to that reality, to stop looking to worldly things for security, and start looking at Christ.
Let's get real here.

He is no more socialist/leftist than the Clintons.

If he was not black and did not have a mid-eastern name, we would not be having this discussion.

This whole dialogue implies that we are judging him on race.

The powers are subordinate to Christ, who is the Logos of truth and king of kings. I think we need to step back and realize (as you noted above) that this world is not our citizenship, but we need to stand for righteousness no matter who sits in the Oval Office.


Let us look at the good side of this -
America has, for the first time, elected a non-white president. That is what America is all about - out of many one. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
The man has confessed to being a born-again Christian. He explicitly stated on national television that Jesus Christ had died for his sins. NO MUSLIM is going to say that. Implications of lying on his part are just conspiracy theories.
Financially, all the candidates are limited in doing what they want. Once they get into office, they have a massive job of balancing the budget. But that is never as easy as they think. It is going to be quite a busy time.
We have to opportunity to show the world that we do not judge a man by his skin or national heritage.
If the world rejoices in our pick of a president, so be it. Let them rejoice with us. And let us show the world that no matter who gets elected, the American people stand behind their president.
This is an opportunity to stand behind him, holding him up on prayer. He will need all the prayer he can get, and I think God is quite capable of providing wisdom to this man.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

The video that I speak of, George corrected him...
Why is it so hard for you to believe that BO could be a Muslim? Did you get taken in and vote for him?

[Athanasius]

I do not see either candidate as demonic. Both of these men are professing Christians.

My concern would be that one or the other will follow a wrong path with good intentions.

However, one of those men believes in destroying babies in the womb and voted against extending medcal care to babies born prematurely in botched abortions.

Obama might "profess" Chrsitianity, but he certainly does not practice it.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Lots of people profess to be a Christian. It's politically expediant.

[Swordman53]

The video that I speak of, George corrected him...
Why is it so hard for you to believe that BO could be a Muslim? Did you get taken in and vote for him?
Who I voted for is not a concern for you. Why is it so hard for you to believe he is a Christian?

Because of his name?

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Who I voted for is not a concern for you. Why is it so hard for you to believe he is a Christian?

Because of his name?

I'm from Illinois...I know who was elected here in my state. BTW, your racist comments alluded to elsewhere are uncalled for. I guarantee you that there is much more diversity in my family than yours. There is more diversity in my family than BO's too.

I'm at work. So I can't get more info for you right now. But I will. You know I will.:bigthink:

[Tallen]

Why is it so hard for you to believe he is a Christian?

While I don't know the condition of his heart, I do know the words coming out of it. And just as Christ told us we can know by the words that are spoken.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. (Luke 6:43-45 KJV)

So here is my dilemma, how can a Christian support and even promote the murder of children and still be a born again, faithful Christian believer? Can you explain that to me? And finally, can a good tree bring forth corrupt fruit according to Christ's words?

[Swordman53]

I'm from Illinois...I know who was elected here in my state. BTW, your racist comments alluded to elsewhere are uncalled for. I guarantee you that there is much more diversity in my family than yours. There is more diversity in my family than BO's too.

I'm at work. So I can't get more info for you right now. But I will. You know I will.:bigthink:
It is interesting that you so freely make assumptions about my family without any facts. It may be indicative of the way you ascertain truth.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Well, you are the accusatory one. I can tell by your implying racism in your comments. You are probably in your 20's, maybe early 30's, and went through the American University/College System. You are from a predominantly European background with perhaps a mixed marriage or child out of wedlock somewhere in your family.

You were called to go to some form of seminary. You still carry some of the University baggage with you.

My family represents a minimum of four nationalities from Spanish speaking to African American to European. If you can legititamately surpass that, you have my apologies...

[Swordman53]

While I don't know the condition of his heart, I do know the words coming out of it. And just as Christ told us we can know by the words that are spoken.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. (Luke 6:43-45 KJV)

So here is my dilemma, how can a Christian support and even promote the murder of children and still be a born again, faithful Christian believer? Can you explain that to me? And finally, can a good tree bring forth corrupt fruit according to Christ's words?
How many people in our country profess Christianity and believe in the right to choose?

In the African-American community, just like in all communities, you will find a mix of religious people - professing Christians - who are split on this issue.

Does that make them all Muslims?

How many Muslims are pro-choice? I doubt that very many are, since they adhere to the value of life and if you check their websites, they will tell you they are against it.

I am male, pro-life, white, Republican (to the core), a capitalist, and evangelical. But I believe in judging a man by who he is. Do I disagree with Barack's stand on abortion? Of course. But that is not the only thing I will judge him on. I will not judge him based on his name or ethnic origins.

What are we to say about Americans who advocated torture of prisoners of war? Shall we advocate such behavior? Or about Americans that stretched the truth to get us into a war with Iraq? Or Americans that opened the door to financial ruin for all of us?

There is more than one issue at stake here.

When I was a kid, Kennedy was elected. (I guess that disproved YP's assumptions about my age.) Everyone demonized him because he was Catholic. He was the antichrist and would follow the pope's direction! The country survived and he turned out to be not so bad of a president.

We need to wait and see.

[Swordman53]

Well, you are the accusatory one. I can tell by your implying racism in your comments. You are probably in your 20's, maybe early 30's, and went through the American University/College System. You are from a predominantly European background with perhaps a mixed marriage or child out of wedlock somewhere in your family.

You were called to go to some form of seminary. You still carry some of the University baggage with you.

My family represents a minimum of four nationalities from Spanish speaking to African American to European. If you can legititamately surpass that, you have my apologies...
University baggage? I am not sure what you mean by that? Are you suggesting that education is a problem and only the uneducated are "smart" enough to judge the events of this world?

I am not going to compare ethnic heritages with you, but my family has sufficient diversity to help me understand that we cannot judge people by their backgrounds.

You have yet to answer why you cannot believe he is a Christian.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Let's start with his 100% voting support of planned parenthood. Let's go to his support of gay marriage. Should I go further...By Their fruits you will know them.

I do have comments that he made to some Hollywood elitists mocking the Bible. I just can't get to it from work...

[Yodas_Prodigy]

University baggage? I am not sure what you mean by that? Are you suggesting that education is a problem and only the uneducated are "smart" enough to judge the events of this world?


I am suggesting indoctrination...I suppose you hold to some form of evolution too? How about theistic evolution?

90% of all College prof's are Democrat...

[Yodas_Prodigy]

When I was a kid, Kennedy was elected. (I guess that disproved YP's assumptions about my age.)

I still have more diversity than you do...:biglol:

[Tallen]

How many people in our country profess Christianity and believe in the right to choose?

Non Sequitur, numbers do not make something right, nor does that show that any of these folks are vigorously pursuing legislation that will expand the "right to choose" to killing born alive babies. Advocating abortion is not the same as promoting legislation that would expand the current status to be more inclusive of killing more people.

I think in your desire to give Obama the benefit of the doubt you are overlooking what he has said and the actions of his past.


In the African-American community, just like in all communities, you will find a mix of religious people - professing Christians - who are split on this issue.

This doesn't provide any evidence that BO is a Christian man. Opinions of others have no bearing on this.

This I know for sure though, a man can not serve two master's in the kingdom of God. To be a good citizen in standing in the Lord's kingdom, He becomes your Lord and you follow His commandments.


Does that make them all Muslims?

"They" are not in question. The question was whether or not we could possibly know if BO is a Christian, I would suggest that his own words and actions tell us, we will know him by his fruit. Just as the Lord said in His word.


How many Muslims are pro-choice?

Don't know. How many Muslim's are Christians? I can answer that.


I doubt that very many are, since they adhere to the value of life and if you check their websites, they will tell you they are against it.

What I have learned from the Muslim's that I have known, is that it is acceptable to say one thing publicly for the sake of the community, and believe something privately for the sake of your own personal advancement. It is honorable, if ethics are set aside to gain an advantage over one's opponent in Islam. It is a noble thing if you win in the end at the cost of your opponents honor. If you leave him deceived and come out ahead then you have done well, especially in business with Americans. The Muslim world-view and ethics are very different than the Christian's.


I am male, pro-life, white, Republican (to the core), a capitalist, and evangelical. But I believe in judging a man by who he is. Do I disagree with Barack's stand on abortion? Of course. But that is not the only thing I will judge him on. I will not judge him based on his name or ethnic origins.

Bob, do like the scripture admonishes us. Judge him on what comes out of his mouth and by the company he keeps. There is plenty of scripture on this. In both cases his actions are speaking louder than some momentary desire to state that he is a Christian man. Fruit takes time to grow, but the words of a fool come quickly.


What are we to say about Americans who advocated torture of prisoners of war? Shall we advocate such behavior? Or about Americans that stretched the truth to get us into a war with Iraq? Or Americans that opened the door to financial ruin for all of us?

Non Sequitur.


There is more than one issue at stake here.

Agreed.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/cadc_woinac/?a=1845

Dear Friend,

The news is burning up with stories on the "economic emergency" facing our country. BUT... there is another emergency we're facing, that NO ONE wants to talk about.

It wasn't brought up in the debates. We don't hear any of the "talking heads" on Fox News or CNN discussing it. There are no "Frontline" special reports on PBS about it. But it's there -- and it's serious.

There is a spiritual emergency in America. Barack Obama has been busy "pulling the wool over the eyes" of the American public -- and the media's helping him get away with it.

WE NEED YOUR HELP TO SPREAD THE TRUTH!
Sen. Barack Obama is trying to recreate "Christianity" on a foundation of radical Black Liberation Theology, theological liberalism and post-modernism. Obama claims to be a Christian, but he is undermining historic, biblical Christianity. In the process, he is defaming the Christian faith.

By any historic or biblical standard, Barack Obama is NOT a Christian! Please understand: I'm not claiming to be the authority on "who is and isn't a Christian." There is only ONE "authority" and it is GOD'S HOLY WORD, the Bible. And it is by HIS word that I can make that pronouncement.

By declaring he is a Christian, yet denying Christianity's most essential truths and traditional morality, Obama is associating Christ with some of the most wicked practices imaginable -- ALL of which are condemned in the Bible.

The Christian Anti-Defamation Commission is releasing 7 short videos entitled, "7 Reasons Why Barack Obama is Not a Christian." You have seen video Reason #1. But, five more are available now and two more will be available in the next week. We need to get those videos in the in-boxes of every Christian in America -- but we urgently need YOUR help to do it! The production is expensive and it costs a lot of money to get this in the hands of the right people - urgently! Please view the video Reason #1 on this page and support this important effort NOW -- before it is too late!

Just look at what the first five videos cover:

1. In a 2004 interview Obama said, "I believe that there are many paths to the same place... All people of faith - Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone knows the same God."
2. Obama does not believe in the authority of the Bible.
3. Barack Obama is an unabashed supporter of special privileges for homosexuals
4. Appearing before a recent meeting of Planned Parenthood, Obama proudly said... "I have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America."
5. In a New York Times interview in 2007, Obama fondly referred to the Islamic evening call to prayer as "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset." According to the article, "Obama went on to recite its opening lines with a perfect Arabic accent: "Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah! I witness that Muhammad is his prophet!"

Jesus warned us not to be deceived. "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it."

Jesus prayed to His Father, "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."
Who are you going to believe, Jesus or Obama?

THAT is the kind of hard-hitting, Jesus-first, solidly biblical TRUTH we're trying to spread -- but WE NEED YOUR HELP!

My friend, now, more than ever, Christianity is under attack from without and within. We need your help to stand for Christ. PLEASE, click through and help today. Thank you.


In Christ,


Dr. Gary Cass, President
Christian Anti-Defamation Commission

BTW, the speaker is African American.
Also see www.DefendChristians.org

Look for Seven Reasons Why Barack Obama is not a Christian.

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Swordsman's Keyboard must have stopped working with this last post!! :biglol:

[Julie]

"Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah! I witness that Muhammad is his prophet!"

That is the shahada. The prayer that makes one muslim.

BlackReformingKid has very interesting blog. Of late, it has been about America and the elections.

[Swordman53]

Swordsman's Keyboard must have stopped working with this last post!! :biglol:
No. Some of us have jobs where we must be responsible to our companies. I certainly will not sit on LAD all day.

[Swordman53]

Non Sequitur, numbers do not make something right, nor does that show that any of these folks are vigorously pursuing legislation that will expand the "right to choose" to killing born alive babies. Advocating abortion is not the same as promoting legislation that would expand the current status to be more inclusive of killing more people.

I think in your desire to give Obama the benefit of the doubt you are overlooking what he has said and the actions of his past.

Ted, The issue here is with the assumption that he is a Muslim.

As has been said, I do not know his heart. But I do not see him as anything more than the normal liberal democrats that we have had in the past. He is no different than the Clintons in my book.

I fully understand that not all who say, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. But I also know that there are many who believe wrongly about specific issues that I think will make it.

What I am saying is not a non sequitur, since I am posing questions related to the issue.

Do you believe George Bush is a Christian? If so, on what basis? He allowed for torture of individuals. He got us into a war that by the criteria established by Augustine is not a "just war." What is the basis for believing that he, or any politician is a Christian?

And no, it is not a non-sequitur. The issue is how we are judging these people.

[Swordman53]

"Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah! I witness that Muhammad is his prophet!"

That is the shahada. The prayer that makes one muslim.

BlackReformingKid has very interesting blog. Of late, it has been about America and the elections.

So if someone says this at a school they attended, where they were required to say something that was probably not understood, there is no way he could possibly be a Christian today. Right?

And if someone attended Catholic school, where they were required as a child to say the "Hail, Mary", then they must be a Catholic. Right?

That is the basis of your argument.

[Swordman53]

Have you ever read any liberation theology?