Did you know that Obama...

[Swordman53]

Yes. His grandmother claimed to have been present at his birth in Kenya.

(But what does she know.)
That is another Berg rumour. He claimed to have a recording. Where is it?

No evidence.

We have an official document from Hawaii, fully certified and confirmed by the government.

You have a rumour from a known conspiracy theorist who claims to have proof, but never supplies it. He has tried to debunk Obama with two different conspiracy theories. He has claimed the USA destroyed the World Trade Center to justify going to war.

Why would you think this guy is even credible?

One would think you were living in the Soviet Union instead of the USA.

[raderag]

Yes. His grandmother claimed to have been present at his birth in Kenya.

(But what does she know.)

Ted, she did not claim that. She only said that he was a child of Kenya.

Did you watch that video? It was a hatchet job.

[Swordman53]

Ted, she did not claim that. She only said that he was a child of Kenya.

Did you watch that video? It was a hatchet job.
I assume you mean John.

Again we see misinformation and supposition.

Berg is a looney. (I think that is the clinical term.)

[raderag]

I assume you mean John.

Again we see misinformation and supposition.

Berg is a looney. (I think that is the clinical term.)

OOPS, yes John.

[JBaker45]

I assume you mean John.

Again we see misinformation and supposition.

Berg is a looney. (I think that is the clinical term.)
Lol.. Berg may in fact be a bit loony.

I don't know him, but I hope we will find out if these claims are true or not.

Obviously we can not, in good conscience, simply accept the word of a state agency without question (as some are willing to do).

[Swordman53]

Lol.. Berg may in fact be a bit loony.

I don't know him, but I hope we will find out if these claims are true or not.

Obviously we can not, in good conscience, simply accept the word of a state agency without question (as some are willing to do).
lol - But you are willing to accept the word of a conspiracy theorist????

What kind of evidence do you need, John?

You have already been shown that Berg misquoted and deceived people with the "born in Kenya" nonsense.

But in your desparation to be right, do you want to say that official agencies of the government are suspect? Or that two independent groups who examined the document are conspiring with the Hawaii government?

You have become one of the conspirators, raising issues that do not exist, trying to prove something you know is not true.

Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

[JBaker45]

lol - But you are willing to accept the word of a conspiracy theorist????

What kind of evidence do you need, John?

You have already been shown that Berg misquoted and deceived people with the "born in Kenya" nonsense.

But in your desparation to be right, do you want to say that official agencies of the government are suspect? Or that two independent groups who examined the document are conspiring with the Hawaii government?

You have become one of the conspirators, raising issues that do not exist, trying to prove something you know is not true.

Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

But I am only asking for a simple investigation.

Who can know who is credible or not without an investigation?

[Swordman53]

But I am only asking for a simple investigation.

Who can know who is credible or not without an investigation?
John,

You are sounding exactly like a conspiracy theorist, which calls into question your overall judgment.

The investigation has been done.

Now you are saying that you want the government of Hawaii investigated for propogating a conspiracy. By who? By Berg? By you?

FactCheck, The Saint Petersburg Times, and the government of Hawaii have all testified to the authenticity of the document.

You have zero evidence, but are willing to go on the false statement of a conspiracy theorist to challenge what has already been noted.

If you are this willing to believe supposition, we must ask that question of Jesus that I posed in my last post -

Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?
That is, if you have established your criterion for truth contrary to the facts, then what kind of exegesis would you believe concerning spiritual things? Would you propogate speculation and supposition as spiritual truth?

You see, this has been an exercise of exegesis. Did you examine the context, the source, the actual wording of what was said and the meaning of the authors? Have you compared the testimonies and sought to understand the intentions of the various writers? How much is just copy from one source to another?

If you cannot do this with simple earthly things, why do you think you can do this with spiritual things? How much of what you believe is based on simple supposition?

It has been a good exercise for all of us.

[Tallen]

For me, this was settled once I knew that the state of Hawaii had done the investigation and testified to the his citizenship. That was what I think was needed. If there is some kind of cover-up, which I doubt, then there would be criminal charges brought up. I doubt very much that any official in Hawaii would be willing to be brought before the courts for Obama.

As far as his grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya, I don't see any other evidence of such, and wouldn't rely upon the memory of one old lady. I am not sure that claim she said that is even true though.

[Swordman53]

For me, this was settled once I knew that the state of Hawaii had done the investigation and testified to the his citizenship. That was what I think was needed. If there is some kind of cover-up, which I doubt, then there would be criminal charges brought up. I doubt very much that any official in Hawaii would be willing to be brought before the courts for Obama.

As far as his grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya, I don't see any other evidence of such, and wouldn't rely upon the memory of one old lady. I am not sure that claim she said that is even true though.
And all she really said was that he was there as a child.

It is a good exercise in exegetical processing - context, source information, competing evidence, etc.

[JBaker45]

For me, this was settled once I knew that the state of Hawaii had done the investigation and testified to the his citizenship. That was what I think was needed. If there is some kind of cover-up, which I doubt, then there would be criminal charges brought up. I doubt very much that any official in Hawaii would be willing to be brought before the courts for Obama.

As far as his grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya, I don't see any other evidence of such, and wouldn't rely upon the memory of one old lady. I am not sure that claim she said that is even true though.
I must also admit that the value of the recollections of a person (suffering from one of the various forms of dementia that are are associated with old age) can be brought into question. :redface:

[Tallen]

I must also admit that the value of the recollections of a person (suffering from one of the various forms of dementia that are are associated with old age) can be brought into question. :redface:

This whole story really doesn't have any legs, if it did the Limbaugh's and Hannity's would be all over it. :happy:

[Swordman53]

Well, we have gone around a few times on this issue and probed the truth that came off of these blogs and found them wanting.

Let me follow-up with a epilogue.

One of the greatest dangers we have with blogs, bulletin boards, and the internet in general is that we can say things that we would ordinarily not say in the presence of individuals and that we only speculate to be true. These things can only do damage and build barriers between individuals.

I will not give you the details, but we recently lost a family in our church because of what someone said on an internet blog. It was a shameful act and, unfortunately, we do not even know the source. We simply were told the reason why they were leaving. But as I reflected on this act, I cannot help but wonder if that is what we are doing to our president-elect with all the conspiracy theories.

If you had five minutes with Obama, what would you tell him? Would all the accusations we have heard occur?

Were I am Obama's presence, I would gladly tell him that I strongly disagree with his stand on abortion. I would tell him that I fear for our economy, just as I am sure he does. I would applaud his view that "what we do to the least of these, we do to Christ." And I would encourage him to consider that such a statement applies to the unborn and to all those who have no voice.

But I would also tell him that as my president, I will stand with him in the fight that we must face and labor for the good. I would tell him I will be praying for him as my national leader, that God would give him the wisdom to see us through some very troubling times. I would remind him that as the head of a great power, he is responsible to the one who stands above every power. I would tell him to feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, and visit those in prison. Then in the true judgment, as a confessing Christian, he will have truly demonstrated the character of Christ, and will hear "well done."

[travelah]

Impeach the Obammunists and if not, America, eat your Democrat cake.

[travelah]

I would not give him an audience.

[raderag]

I would tell him to feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, "

All great things done on his own time and own dime.

[Tallen]

All great things done on his own time and own dime.

Good point. :clap:

[kepano]

I had to laugh at Tallen's confidence in the government of Hawaii. If you knew all the shenanigans that went/goes on over here in government, you would not so easily give them a pass for honesty. You do not get far over here without "knowing the right people". They have the control thing down to a fine art. Throw in the literal "useful idiots" that play the game and you have an idea of how things tend to go over here.
Hawaii also has what you might call some self-interest in playing any Obama-game thrown their way. You can say that I am talking off the top of my head, but I am not. I've had years of talking with people that are in the system about what goes on in our government over here. It ain't pretty.
I would like a serious investigation still. Call me a kook if you wish.

[Tallen]

I had to laugh at Tallen's confidence in the government of Hawaii. If you knew all the shenanigans that went/goes on over here in government, you would not so easily give them a pass for honesty. You do not get far over here without "knowing the right people". They have the control thing down to a fine art. Throw in the literal "useful idiots" that play the game and you have an idea of how things tend to go over here.
Hawaii also has what you might call some self-interest in playing any Obama-game thrown their way. You can say that I am talking off the top of my head, but I am not. I've had years of talking with people that are in the system about what goes on in our government over here. It ain't pretty.
I would like a serious investigation still. Call me a kook if you wish.

I was hoping you'd put in your two cents Kep. You are there. What I think is that it won't go anywhere, the investigation that is. It is a settled matter now, and after January, it will be a very hard thing to investigate.

[TigerBunny]

I was hoping you'd put in your two cents Kep. You are there. What I think is that it won't go anywhere, the investigation that is. It is a settled matter now, and after January, it will be a very hard thing to investigate.

January? Where's "Joe the Plumber" now? :bigO:

[JBaker45]

January? Where's "Joe the Plumber" now? :bigO:
Perhaps government officials in Hawaii have "put the bag on him" :BubbleGum: