Newt joins the RCC

[Joe S]

I have this little theory about Fox news and the RCC- well I probably shouldn't go into that. Just don't be too surprised when Beck renounces his Mormonism and Huckabee his Southern Baptist beliefs in favor of the RCC.

Anyway, here's the article:

Say it ain't so Newt (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/aprilweb-only/115-53.0.html?start=1)

Sounds like he went from complete unbelief to RCC, so I guess he's no worse off. I guess they started catechizing him four years ago, about the time he became a major Fox News contributer. Hmmmm.....:L49:

[TigerBunny]

I have this little theory about Fox news and the RCC- well I probably shouldn't go into that. Just don't be too surprised when Beck renounces his Mormonism and Huckabee his Southern Baptist beliefs in favor of the RCC.

Anyway, here's the article:

Say it ain't so Newt (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/aprilweb-only/115-53.0.html?start=1)

Sounds like he went from complete unbelief to RCC, so I guess he's no worse off. I guess they started catechizing him four years ago, about the time he became a major Fox News contributer. Hmmmm.....:L49:


:L21::L47:

[JBaker45]

Well, it's true that both Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity are both Catholics.

But what are my options - to listen to CNN and the rest of the liberal news media? I don't think so. :L44:

[Tallen]

Well, it's true that both Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity are both Catholics.

But what are my options - to listen to CNN and the rest of the liberal news media? I don't think so. :L44:

Actually, I find Fox more biased most of the time. Even the regular news is spotted with commentary that I find distracting. And as far as O'Reilly, Hannity and Beck, I find their shows second rate. They are dominating talking heads that interrupt their guest and rarely let an interesting discussion happen. If this is where conservatism is heading, I am not going. :L8:

[Tallen]

I have this little theory about Fox news and the RCC- well I probably shouldn't go into that. Just don't be too surprised when Beck renounces his Mormonism and Huckabee his Southern Baptist beliefs in favor of the RCC.

Anyway, here's the article:

Say it ain't so Newt (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/aprilweb-only/115-53.0.html?start=1)

Sounds like he went from complete unbelief to RCC, so I guess he's no worse off. I guess they started catechizing him four years ago, about the time he became a major Fox News contributer. Hmmmm.....:L49:

Joe the whole conservative movement is being woed by Rome. Don't be surprised by mass conversions to her bling-bling.

[Joe S]

Hey Tallen, what do you think people are finding so atractive about Rome? The sense of tradition? The idea of earning God's favor? The bells and smells and pomp? Dealing with men rather than God, i.e. the papacy and preisthood?

The whole thing reminds me of a secret fraternal order. It's like joining the Knights of Pythias or something.

[JBaker45]

I do understand the desperate nature of our situation brother.

Peace to you,
John

[Tallen]

Hey Tallen, what do you think people are finding so atractive about Rome? The sense of tradition? The idea of earning God's favor? The bells and smells and pomp? Dealing with men rather than God, i.e. the papacy and preisthood?

The whole thing reminds me of a secret fraternal order. It's like joining the Knights of Pythias or something.

Yeah, two things in my opinion. 1: The western church looks to reconcile with her. (Which is complicated.) 2: The RCC is like a cameleon, and presents herself in ways that are appealing to various groups and sects. She has a long, long history of surrounding a sect and then incorporating those religious beliefs into her bowls and making them her own. Just look at all of the pagan and cultic symbols and teachings already there.

[raderag]

Hey Tallen, what do you think people are finding so atractive about Rome? The sense of tradition? The idea of earning God's favor? The bells and smells and pomp? Dealing with men rather than God, i.e. the papacy and preisthood?

The whole thing reminds me of a secret fraternal order. It's like joining the Knights of Pythias or something.

Joe, the problem is that most of the evangelical Church has abandoned historic orthodoxy in favor of post-modernism. Rome is very attractive for those looking for objective truth. The arguments of Rome are presently much more convincing than those of the majority of the evangelical Church. The rejection of tradition by many today is probably the biggest factor in this.

[tking]

Hey Tallen, what do you think people are finding so atractive about Rome? The sense of tradition? The idea of earning God's favor? The bells and smells and pomp? Dealing with men rather than God, i.e. the papacy and preisthood?

The whole thing reminds me of a secret fraternal order. It's like joining the Knights of Pythias or something.

To me, it seems that the ritual and seemingly cohesiveness of the RCC and it's beliefs in relation to history and the sense of belonging has become ever more attractive in a world that's whirling out of control. I know folks who study history and have become convinced that the RCC is THE beginning and end of the Christian church simply because it's presented that way in certain theological circles. Of course it wasn't ever cohesive or even "one" with itself throughout history, but this is all brushed aside, and the Pope becomes the "proof" that it is as it always was. Of course, that part isn't true either, but unless one does their own digging and doesn't fall for the well-constructed defense of the idea, the appeal is there. And let's face it...the Protestant faith hasn't exactly put forward a united front, and that is the downfall.

There's a certain sense of safety involved with being connected to an age-old institution such as the RCC. That in itself, should be a red light to anyone looking into it. Our safety is in Jesus Christ, not any earthly thing.

[raderag]

To me, it seems that the ritual and seemingly cohesiveness of the RCC and it's beliefs in relation to history and the sense of belonging has become ever more attractive in a world that's whirling out of control. I know folks who study history and have become convinced that the RCC is THE beginning and end of the Christian church simply because it's presented that way in certain theological circles. Of course it wasn't ever cohesive or even "one" with itself throughout history, but this is all brushed aside, and the Pope becomes the "proof" that it is as it always was. Of course, that part isn't true either, but unless one does their own digging and doesn't fall for the well-constructed defense of the idea, the appeal is there. And let's face it...the Protestant faith hasn't exactly put forward a united front, and that is the downfall.

There's a certain sense of safety involved with being connected to an age-old institution such as the RCC. That in itself, should be a red light to anyone looking into it. Our safety is in Jesus Christ, not any earthly thing.


It also has alot to do with "the great evangelical disaster" that Francis Schaefer wrote about. When having to choose between liberalism, modern evangelicalism, and the RCC, the RCC looks great.

[tking]

It also has alot to do with "the great evangelical disaster" that Francis Schaefer wrote about. When having to choose between liberalism, modern evangelicalism, and the RCC, the RCC looks great.

You're probably right. I haven't read that, but I think we see it playing out before our eyes right now. People have always needed rules, guidelines, and boundaries, but the modern-day church seems to want to blur all of that. The consequence is a group of people wandering around in the desert. It's no wonder the appearance of strictness and ritual is like the answer to prayer. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with ritual. I like liturgical services. But when the ritual becomes the object of worship, it is definitely wrong. In some ways, I think the pendulum has swung so far away from ritual and history that we're seeing the disease that kind of free-for-all produces.

Edited to add:

You might be interested in this recent news thread Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (http://www.light-after-darkness.org/forums/showthread.php?p=30167#poststop).

[JBaker45]

I have a theory Joe…


For many, it is easier to let go of one's own personal responsibility in searching the scriptures for oneself. In fact, I think this is a basic human nature that we all share to some degree or another.

But the Roman Catholic has discover a way to alleviate the necessity of personal responsibility in these matters, because now the responsibility has been transferred to the church, which they may simply follow blindly.


(My 2c)

[Joe S]

All the answers make sense to me. I think it's the chameleon thing Tallen spoke of- they have a way of appealing to whatever one may be looking for, whether it be objective truth, tradition, culture, counter culture, someone to give them a list of things to do- the RCC has a place for everybody. It's a masterfull counterfeit. They have an angle on every economic and social class.

And of course the staunch moralism of traditional RCC appeals to social conservatives.

[JBaker45]

And of course the staunch moralism of traditional RCC appeals to social conservatives.
Because... They are willing to yield person responsibility ;-)

[Athanasius]

I have this little theory about Fox news and the RCC- well I probably shouldn't go into that. Just don't be too surprised when Beck renounces his Mormonism and Huckabee his Southern Baptist beliefs in favor of the RCC.

Anyway, here's the article:

Say it ain't so Newt (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/aprilweb-only/115-53.0.html?start=1)

Sounds like he went from complete unbelief to RCC, so I guess he's no worse off. I guess they started catechizing him four years ago, about the time he became a major Fox News contributer. Hmmmm.....:L49:

Our senior pastor thinks the Romans control FOX (O'Reilly, Hannity, Laura Ingraham, etc.). Well, if it does, they are doing a fairly good job - a lot better than CNN, MSNBC, etc.

As far as Newt goes, I've noticed a definite difference in him since he became a RC, and it's a keener awareness of the Christian view on life, politics, etc.

Of course, he could have gone half-way and become Anglican - but, let's face it, they have too many problems to be very attractive to anybody.

As for Glenn Beck - better Catholic than a Mormon cultist!

[kepano]

The RCC appeals to those who choose a worldly approach to God. It is full of pagan rituals and emotionalism. By doing stuff and obeying specified rules, Romanists believe they are pleasing God, even though the Bible says otherwise.
The RCC does not believe in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They do not believe that Jesus substitutionally died as a believer's Redeemer.
Roman Catholics are cultists, even if they profess some biblical truth. They have another gospel, which is "Christian" in name only.

[Athanasius]

The RCC appeals to those who choose a worldly approach to God. It is full of pagan rituals and emotionalism. By doing stuff and obeying specified rules, Romanists believe they are pleasing God, even though the Bible says otherwise.
The RCC does not believe in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They do not believe that Jesus substitutionally died as a believer's Redeemer.
Roman Catholics are cultists, even if they profess some biblical truth. They have another gospel, which is "Christian" in name only.

I used to be an Anglican, so I'm a little more sympathetic to the Romans than most here. In any case, since the Romans believe the Nicene creed, I would never call them a cult. Perhaps heterodox in some areas, but then I've known Baptists that are heterodox as well (and I'm a Baptist).:L3:

[Joe S]

I dunno, the charts I posted a little way down show a vast gulf between the Romish worldview and biblical orthodoxy. Their creation dogma sounds like early Gnosticism to me. Prayers to Mary, angels and dead folks (and for dead folks) is pretty cultlike.

J.I. Packer and Rome are a million miles apart. Now, some of the current Anglicans aren't far from Rome, like Tom Wright, since he's given up the cardinal doctrine of justification to make ammends with Babylon.

I'm still protesting.

[Tallen]

Yeah, I agree Joe. I am protesting to.

[Athanasius]

I dunno, the charts I posted a little way down show a vast gulf between the Romish worldview and biblical orthodoxy. Their creation dogma sounds like early Gnosticism to me. Prayers to Mary, angels and dead folks (and for dead folks) is pretty cultlike.

J.I. Packer and Rome are a million miles apart. Now, some of the current Anglicans aren't far from Rome, like Tom Wright, since he's given up the cardinal doctrine of justification to make ammends with Babylon.

I'm still protesting.

The Continuing Anglicans (orthodox believers) really preach justification by faith (just like Luther). We've been visiting one of their missions on Sunday afternoons. I like liturgy, even though I'm formally a Baptist. If we could only join the Baptist preaching with the Anglican liturgy, and have Banglicans, or some such new denomination.

Many Anglicans still aligned with Canterbury are marginally Christian, and even that may be an overstatement. Of course, the African and Southern Cone Anglicans are fairly evangelical.....so, you never know what your'e being served up when you step through the doors of an Anglican/Episcopal Church.

I mean, if you walked in on this Anglican mass in Latin, you might think you've made a wrong turn and ended up in Rome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_y-pXF-_EI&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2BDIsqavQM&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnYHt3mxq40&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY06Pt3yRy0&feature=related

and finally:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDizsKBkls&feature=channel

Please don't send me any protests, okay guys? I understand this is a parish still within the Episcoapl Church - good grief!

[Tallen]

Reminds me of a Romanian Orthodox Monestary I visit now and again. The priest is speaking Romanian when I come in and when he notices me he immediately changes to English. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_12_9.gif

[Athanasius]

Reminds me of a Romanian Orthodox Monestary I visit now and again. The priest is speaking Romanian when I come in and when he notices me he immediately changes to English. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_12_9.gif

Interesting. You're not trying to discern a vocation as a monk, I assume!:L52:

[Tallen]

Interesting. You're not trying to discern a vocation as a monk, I assume!:L52:

No, this monestary has nuns and for women. :L55:

I find the head Pastor there to be an outstanding Christian witness and example for a Christian man, and I love one of the founding nuns (Gaberiella) who is a beautiful Christian woman and hard worker. She is the backbone of this monestary, IMO. Don't agree with the theology though.

He was imprisoned in Romania for years and tortured fequently to make him denounce Christ. For years he held his witness and was finally taken out of the country. I doubt many Christians would be willing to endure and never renounce their faith, for the sake of physical comfort. I appreciate the depth of his insight during those times, when he had resolved to stand straight and take the armour that we all should bear.

An Interview (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/BragaChurch.php).

The monestery is on land that was owned by a dear friend's family. It was interesting to watch it taken from a farm to a community that lives on this farm land.

Website (http://www.dormitionmonastery.org/)

[Athanasius]

No, this monestary has nuns and for women. :L55:

I find the head Pastor there to be an outstanding Christian witness and example for a Christian man, and I love one of the founding nuns (Gaberiella) who is a beautiful Christian woman and hard worker. She is the backbone of this monestary, IMO. Don't agree with the theology though.

He was imprisoned in Romania for years and tortured fequently to make him denounce Christ. For years he held his witness and was finally taken out of the country. I doubt many Christians would be willing to endure and never renounce their faith, for the sake of physical comfort. I appreciate the depth of his insight during those times, when he had resolved to stand straight and take the armour that we all should bear.

An Interview (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/BragaChurch.php).

The monestery is on land that was owned by a dear friend's family. It was interesting to watch it taken from a farm to a community that lives on this farm land.

Website (http://www.dormitionmonastery.org/)

That's really interesting. And they have monks/priests living in the same building as the nuns, or do they live elsewhere? I've seen some Orthodox monasteries on Youtube and the nuns serve the monks/priests their food. Interesting - but, gee, why give up getting married then - you're doing the same thing you'd do as a wife - serving the men!:L26:

[Tallen]

That's really interesting. And they have monks/priests living in the same building as the nuns, or do they live elsewhere? I've seen some Orthodox monasteries on Youtube and the nuns serve the monks/priests their food. Interesting - but, gee, why give up getting married then - you're doing the same thing you'd do as a wife - serving the men!:L26:

The priest don't live in the same building. If you visit, the nuns serve everyone their food at the agape meal. They usually serve traditional Romanian foods. Very good. And your right, the roles of the male and female seem to mimic marriage in many ways.

[raderag]

No, this monestary has nuns and for women. :L55:

I find the head Pastor there to be an outstanding Christian witness and example for a Christian man, and I love one of the founding nuns (Gaberiella) who is a beautiful Christian woman and hard worker. She is the backbone of this monestary, IMO. Don't agree with the theology though.

He was imprisoned in Romania for years and tortured fequently to make him denounce Christ. For years he held his witness and was finally taken out of the country. I doubt many Christians would be willing to endure and never renounce their faith, for the sake of physical comfort. I appreciate the depth of his insight during those times, when he had resolved to stand straight and take the armour that we all should bear.

An Interview (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/BragaChurch.php).

The monestery is on land that was owned by a dear friend's family. It was interesting to watch it taken from a farm to a community that lives on this farm land.

Website (http://www.dormitionmonastery.org/)

Really interesting Ted. Sometimes its hard to understand that there are many true believers in the Eastern Church, but there certainly is even though they have never been exposed to Joel Osteen or Rick Warren.

[Tallen]

Really interesting Ted. Sometimes its hard to understand that there are many true believers in the Eastern Church, but there certainly is even though they have never been exposed to Joel Osteen or Rick Warren.

Personally I think that the fellowship found in these ethnic communities demonstrate a real spiritual-ness lacking in the Protestant church. They are truly loving people and open themselves up to those who are interested. The pace of the worship and fellowship seems to be much slower, no hurry to get home for the Sunday lunch and mowing the yard. I can see the appeal of their lifestyle and worship to those that leave the Reformed churches.

They tend to view the Osteen's and Warren's as jokers who have no clue of what a Christian community should be about.

[Athanasius]

Back to Newt, it seems that he and his wife are doing a new video on "rediscovering God in America." Well, that's a positive thing!

[Tallen]

Back to Newt, it seems that he and his wife are doing a new video on "rediscovering God in America." Well, that's a positive thing!

It will be a good thing if it is from the Reformed settlers view, not his RC perspective. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_17_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824MNUS)






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb095&pp=ZNxdm824MNUS (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb095_ZNxdm824MNUS&utm_id=7923)

[tking]

Personally I think that the fellowship found in these ethnic communities demonstrate a real spiritual-ness lacking in the Protestant church. They are truly loving people and open themselves up to those who are interested. The pace of the worship and fellowship seems to be much slower, no hurry to get home for the Sunday lunch and mowing the yard. I can see the appeal of their lifestyle and worship to those that leave the Reformed churches.

They tend to view the Osteen's and Warren's as jokers who have no clue of what a Christian community should be about.

Your description of them reminds me of the Mennonite Brethren we have in this area. There are a lot of Dutch descendants in a cluster, so to speak, of little towns about 40 miles from me. (Some of John Denver's relatives live over there, and he visited them quite often apparently.) They are THE very first, on the spot, when a disaster happens. The men load up their pickups, filled with all kinds of carpentry gear, and they ride into town, ask where to start, and to work they go. They never ask "if" they can help, they get ready, and come do it. The women usually pack up with their handmade quilts, some clothing, some food, and cleaning supplies. It's an incredible thing to watch. They don't accept pay of any kind, they are very quiet and hard-working, and don't leave until the job is done. To them it is part of loving their neighbor, no matter who their neighbor is or how far away it is.

[Tallen]

Your description of them reminds me of the Mennonite Brethren we have in this area. There are a lot of Dutch descendants in a cluster, so to speak, of little towns about 40 miles from me. (Some of John Denver's relatives live over there, and he visited them quite often apparently.) They are THE very first, on the spot, when a disaster happens. The men load up their pickups, filled with all kinds of carpentry gear, and they ride into town, ask where to start, and to work they go. They never ask "if" they can help, they get ready, and come do it. The women usually pack up with their handmade quilts, some clothing, some food, and cleaning supplies. It's an incredible thing to watch. They don't accept pay of any kind, they are very quiet and hard-working, and don't leave until the job is done. To them it is part of loving their neighbor, no matter who their neighbor is or how far away it is.

Isn't that wonderful? If all of us who are supposedly Christians would act in the same manner, I think the world would truly change.

[Athanasius]

I think it's going to be an historical look at God and America - unless he's going to be concentrating on Maryland, it will probably have more of an emphasis on Puritans (and Anglicans, of course!).



It will be a good thing if it is from the Reformed settlers view, not his RC perspective. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_17_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824MNUS)






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb095&pp=ZNxdm824MNUS (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb095_ZNxdm824MNUS&utm_id=7923)

[Tallen]

I think it's going to be an historical look at God and America - unless he's going to be concentrating on Maryland, it will probably have more of an emphasis on Puritans (and Anglicans, of course!).

If he is going to deal with the early settlers in America, he will have to deal with their view of the RCC. Both the Puritans and the Anglicans, viewed the Pope as The Antichrist. :L55:

[Athanasius]

If he is going to deal with the early settlers in America, he will have to deal with their view of the RCC. Both the Puritans and the Anglicans, viewed the Pope as The Antichrist. :L55:

Yes, and now some of their ancestors might think otherwise.....but I won't get into it.:L37: