I have a suggestion for President Obama

[Tallen]

If you can pay for nationalized health care by eliminating fraud from existing government programs, fix them first and get a stream of revenue..., and then you can pay for you health care.

My suspicion is that you can't fix what already exist now, and there has been no effort to fix the status quo, so why would we believe you could fix it in the future?

[JBaker45]

If you can pay for nationalized health care by eliminating fraud from existing government programs, fix them first and get a stream of revenue..., and then you can pay for you health care.

My suspicion is that you can't fix what already exist now, and there has been no effort to fix the status quo, so why would we believe you could fix it in the future?
Sounds good.

The errors that are repeated over and over again need to be addressed first.

Who knows... Once that is properly dealt with, the bulk of our problems could be over with already.

[tking]

If you can pay for nationalized health care by eliminating fraud from existing government programs, fix them first and get a stream of revenue..., and then you can pay for you health care.

My suspicion is that you can't fix what already exist now, and there has been no effort to fix the status quo, so why would we believe you could fix it in the future?

I didn't listen, but I did read part of his speech. This kind of thing (along with the stimulus packages, cash for clunkers, and bailouts) is exactly why I didn't think he was ready for the job. Everything he's done so far is going to have a backlash effect that will, more than likely, leave states, cities, and individuals in a worse condition than they already were.

Sure, I would love dearly for at least every child and every elderly person to have coverage, as well as anyone in between who truly can't afford to get coverage. But you can't just go in there with the sweep of a pen and fix it. It's far too complex an issue to be making promises about how it's going to be reformed. And the sad truth is that it will end up pretty close to what some of the conservative watch dogs are saying....health care will be portioned out in such a way that people WILL die. They'll run into the same problem the HMOs did.

I don't hold to the same idea the conservatives have about offering no one insurance and letting them get their own if they want it. These guys have obviously never worked a job and tried to live within a minimum wage atmosphere. There is no way to HAVE coverage if you're in that position. And as human beings, we are obligated (yes, I do believe obligated) to help those who can't help themselves in that respect. This country is built and held up on their backs. So...I don't know what the answer is, but as you said, correcting the abuses would go a long way toward funding some other type of program. One of the problems, though, is that Medicare itself is such a convoluted mess that doctors have to constantly be adjusting their fees and all just to get ANYTHING out of the program, which translates into the general public and those with insurance footing the bill for the Medicare recipients. It's just wacked out!

Sigh..I am dreading the next few years.

[Joe S]

I'm fairly simple I know, but it seems to me the way health care in America is approached as a profit driven industry is unethical. It would seem to me that it would be better viewed as an essential service. I am skeptical that businesses who's primary concern is making stockholders happy to maintain their operating capital are acting in the public's best interest. It would be in their best interest to keep us sick.

It probably isn't feasible, but I would that health care were totally federalized and ran non-profit as an essential service, like the military. If I had to pay an extra $75 a week in taxes it would be cheaper than health insurance. I have no sympathy for the drug companies, the insurance companies, or the hospital networks who are gouging sick people to keep up the profit margin. I realize they must do that to have operating capital, but I would that health care industries were not incorporated, but publicly owned.

So, I'm a full communist on health care. Obama care won't work because it's half arsed; they won't do anything to hurt the corporations and the ambulance chasers.

[Tallen]

I'm fairly simple I know, but it seems to me the way health care in America is approached as a profit driven industry is unethical. It would seem to me that it would be better viewed as an essential service. I am skeptical that businesses who's primary concern is making stockholders happy to maintain their operating capital are acting in the public's best interest. It would be in their best interest to keep us sick.

It probably isn't feasible, but I would that health care were totally federalized and ran non-profit as an essential service, like the military. If I had to pay an extra $75 a week in taxes it would be cheaper than health insurance. I have no sympathy for the drug companies, the insurance companies, or the hospital networks who are gouging sick people to keep up the profit margin. I realize they must do that to have operating capital, but I would that health care industries were not incorporated, but publicly owned.

So, I'm a full communist on health care. Obama care won't work because it's half arsed; they won't do anything to hurt the corporations and the ambulance chasers.

The problem that I see with this Joe, is we already have health care provided by government that is riddled with fraud. And what about the veterans hospitals? Some of them are neglected and outdated, far behind the current level of technology and health care standards. And then add to that, where there is socialization or federalization the bureaucracies grow to stagger sizes and inefficiencies.

So knowing this, how would we get from where we are now, to a more efficient and better run health care system, if it was run by the government? :L47:

[Joe S]

You know what the problem is? Total depravity. Nothing is going to work well as long as fallen man is in on it.

You are of course, right. Efficient, effective, inexpensive public health care is a pipe dream. Corruption, fraud and unethical and inept politicians have ruined the government run programs we already have, and to expand that to include all of health care would be a nightmare.

[tking]

You know what the problem is? Total depravity. Nothing is going to work well as long as fallen man is in on it.

You are of course, right. Efficient, effective, inexpensive public health care is a pipe dream. Corruption, fraud and unethical and inept politicians have ruined the government run programs we already have, and to expand that to include all of health care would be a nightmare.

You nailed it...fallen man, greed, and the natural occurrence of even routine illnesses. Someone long ago saw a $$ sign on that and here we are.

My niece works in the prison system (Human Resources), and one of her friends works for AFLAC. This friend told her that if this health bill passes the way Obama is wanting it to, within weeks there will be 59 offices shut down...the end. Now what, pray tell, is the government prepared to do with the influx of private insurers' employees who are suddenly jobless because no one is going to pass up cheaper insurance if it's any good at all.

The really scary part to me is the part where everyone will be fined if they do not have insurance. Can you imagine what that will mean to these folks who aren't quite Medicare age but are living on next to nothing already? It's a catch-22 for them just like it is now for those who don't qualify for state assistance because they're a few dollars over the limit, but they definitely don't have the money for insurance or even a doctor's visit. Oh wait...I'm sure he's got that figured out as well. :L8:

[Swordman53]

I'm fairly simple I know, but it seems to me the way health care in America is approached as a profit driven industry is unethical. It would seem to me that it would be better viewed as an essential service. I am skeptical that businesses who's primary concern is making stockholders happy to maintain their operating capital are acting in the public's best interest. It would be in their best interest to keep us sick.

It probably isn't feasible, but I would that health care were totally federalized and ran non-profit as an essential service, like the military. If I had to pay an extra $75 a week in taxes it would be cheaper than health insurance. I have no sympathy for the drug companies, the insurance companies, or the hospital networks who are gouging sick people to keep up the profit margin. I realize they must do that to have operating capital, but I would that health care industries were not incorporated, but publicly owned.

So, I'm a full communist on health care. Obama care won't work because it's half arsed; they won't do anything to hurt the corporations and the ambulance chasers.
Adam Smith's principle of self-interest in The Wealth of Nations is what drives a capitalist economy. This notion seems to be almost sinful, until you look at it from the corporate perspective - it is the wealth of nations, not the wealth of individuals. In some sense, the nation must protect the overall good of its people to prosper and provide mechanisms for competition with other nations. (However, I am not convinced that Obama's health plan is feasible.)

As such, such principles must be provided to corporations as well. They need the ability to compete, do research, and provide services. All of that requires profit, and that profit from a particular product is often 10 to 15 years beyond when they need to do the research.

If you are going to take away profit from the corporations, take away the right to sue the doctors, hospitals and drug companies for their failures. These people are being sued for trying to save lives. They just are not always successful and often mistakes are made.

And do not expect medical advances like vaccines, imaging, or those cold tablets if you eliminate profit.

Imagine a world without medicine. And next time you get a toothache, go to a barber.

[Tallen]

You know what the problem is? Total depravity. Nothing is going to work well as long as fallen man is in on it.


You are of course, right. Efficient, effective, inexpensive public health care is a pipe dream. Corruption, fraud and unethical and inept politicians have ruined the government run programs we already have, and to expand that to include all of health care would be a nightmare.

I agree with you in principle though Joe, no American citizen should be left out of the best health care we can provide. I think it is a shame we'll have to bear until we have leadership that is willing to put self interest aside for the greater good of our country.

I wonder what our founding fathers would say today if they could speak out. :L52:

[tking]

I wonder what our founding fathers would say today if they could speak out. :L52:

Where's our country?

[Tallen]

Your probably right.

[Joe S]

The really scary part to me is the part where everyone will be fined if they do not have insurance.

That will make Obama extremely unpopular. Not sure how that's supposed to help people who can't afford insurance.

[tking]

Yeah...made a lot of sense to me, too. It just seems like a convoluted bill that has far-reaching implications that no one seems to really be answering questions about. It isn't gonna add to our national debt?...now that just makes no sense at all.

[raderag]

Yeah...made a lot of sense to me, too. It just seems like a convoluted bill that has far-reaching implications that no one seems to really be answering questions about. It isn't gonna add to our national debt?...now that just makes no sense at all.

Terry, the Fed has plenty of printing presses. So what is the problem? :L35:

[Tallen]

They'll have to buy more, the ones they already have a running a full capacity.