Hall of shame

[Joe S]

I propose an area where we can post comments by professing Christians who knowingly and grossly misrepresent other people's beliefs in order to further their own ideas. I find this behavior abhorrent, that anyone would purposefully tell lies and misinform thousands that go to them to learn. I've erected a few strawmen in my time, but it was out of ignorance of the truth or a careless broad brushed statement, not a blatant and purposed lie about another person's beliefs. Perhaps we could, as a body of believers with varied beliefs, prick the consciences of those who would do such things in the name of Christ (maybe email them, "you have been added to our hall of shame for lying").

Here's one I read just a few minutes ago that would be a fine start.


Dr. Nelson Price's teaching on Reformed theology:


A mass of people are gathered at a bus stop marked “Planet Earth.” Along comes the Celestial Bus marked “Destination Heaven.” It pulls up and stops. The driver, who is God, opens the door, and says, “All destined for heaven get on board.” A number do. A missionary couple who with zeal have served Christ all their lives start on and God says, “Step aside. You haven’t been chosen to ride this bus.” A couple of infants start on and God tells them to step aside. Persons who from youth have loved and ministered in Christ’s name are told to step aside. As the bus is about to depart and the door is closing God says to those not on board, “Catch the next bus.” “No,” they plead, “here comes the next bus and it is driven by Satan and marked ‘Destination Hell.’”
“Sorry,” says God. “I didn’t choose to save you. Your love and commitment to Jesus doesn’t matter.”

[graceshaker]

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

i guess doc price missed this...

[tking]

"Your love and commitment to Jesus doesn't matter." Uhhhhhhhhh....this dude might need to read a bit more scripture, eh? That's an awful misrepresentation.

[Joe S]

"Your love and commitment to Jesus doesn't matter." Uhhhhhhhhh....this dude might need to read a bit more scripture, eh? That's an awful misrepresentation.

I wasn't really clear, Dr. Price doesn't claim this belief for himself, he claims that Reformed christians believe this. And he is teaching hundreds that this is what Reformed christians believe.

Anyway, I retract my proposal, I was hot under the collar after reading that.

[tking]

I wasn't really clear, Dr. Price doesn't claim this belief for himself, he claims that Reformed christians believe this. And he is teaching hundreds that this is what Reformed christians believe.

Anyway, I retract my proposal, I was hot under the collar after reading that.

Yeah, I knew what you meant. I'm actually the one who wasn't clear in my response..well, other than the part where I said it was an awful misrepresentation.

:D

[Tallen]

Hey Joe, I think there are a bunch of so-called "Calvinist" over on CARM that need to be put in the HALL OF SHAME. Especially one who condemns everyone that doesn't teach or believe a particular theory of atonement. A theory that didn't exist until much later in church history, btw. What are they going to do with all of them folks before it was thought up. The early church in fact wasn't so concerned about the atonement and how all the particulars would be worked out.

I have debated this Mark Carpenter fellow, or at least someone that claimed to be this guy, a couple of times. Either he was banned for being rudely judgemental before we could finish our conversation, or he ignored some of the points and wouldn't answer them. He was banned from ReformedConcepts, my Yahoo site, and about five or six other groups within about two or three weeks. I believe he was banned from CARM a couple of years ago, where he was thoroughly refuted by several Calvinists which he started ignoring after they had called him to the carpet.

[Joe S]

Hey Joe, I think there are a bunch of so-called "Calvinist" over on CARM that need to be put in the HALL OF SHAME. Especially one who condemns everyone that doesn't teach or believe a particular theory of atonement. A theory that didn't exist until much later in church history, btw. What are they going to do with all of them folks before it was thought up. The early church in fact wasn't so concerned about the atonement and how all the particulars would be worked out.

I have debated this Mark Carpenter fellow, or at least someone that claimed to be this guy, a couple of times. Either he was banned for being rudely judgemental before we could finish our conversation, or he ignored some of the points and wouldn't answer them. He was banned from ReformedConcepts, my Yahoo site, and about five or six other groups within about two or three weeks. I believe he was banned from CARM a couple of years ago, where he was thoroughly refuted by several Calvinists which he started ignoring after they had called him to the carpet.

If the full extent of Scriptural knowlege concerning Christ's sacrifice is needed for salvation, I am excluded. Were early Christians truly saved before they recieved the written gospels and epistles? Or perhaps this one thinks God reveals limited atonement through special revelation to true believers upon regeneration. Again, I am excluded.

On the other side, Dave Hunt says this:

Those who only know the false gospel of Calvinism are not saved, while those who are saved and ought to know better but teach these heresies will be judged for doing so.

I'm excluded from salvation again, or if I'm saved, I'm under judgement. Probly have to go to purgatory.

Mark Carpenter sounds familiar- what was his belief?

[travelah]

If the full extent of Scriptural knowlege concerning Christ's sacrifice is needed for salvation, I am excluded. Were early Christians truly saved before they recieved the written gospels and epistles? Or perhaps this one thinks God reveals limited atonement through special revelation to true believers upon regeneration. Again, I am excluded.

On the other side, Dave Hunt says this:


I'm excluded from salvation again, or if I'm saved, I'm under judgement. Probly have to go to purgatory.

Mark Carpenter sounds familiar- what was his belief?

I believe marc carpenter is the principle of the Outside the Camp nonesense. Personally I believe he is possessed. He might even be posting on CARM under another name ... :BubbleGum:

Here is his crackpot internet site ... http://www.outsidethecamp.org/

[Tallen]

I believe marc carpenter is the principle of the Outside the Camp nonesense. Personally I believe he is possessed. He might even be posting on CARM under another name ... :BubbleGum:

Here is his crackpot internet site ... http://www.outsidethecamp.org/

I few years ago I was a member of several Reformed mailing groups that discussed Reformed topics. Carpenter made the rounds in these lists and pronounce his condemnation on list after list claiming "they" were not "saved", spamming each list with the same material that is being cut and pasted on CARM now. He was banned from every one of those list within just a few days.

If he is posting on CARM he is doing so under a lie because he was banned a couple of years ago on the old CARM boards.

[Joe S]

Its hard to know what to say. I saw another site like his that seemed to have a peculiar beef with John MacCarthur, I'll try to dig it up. I think they are nothing more than cults.

EDIT: Here it is- a True Church according to Darwin Fish :bigthink:

http://www.atruechurch.info/home.html

[Tallen]

That's the one Joe, he was making his way around and posting those same articles. He condemns his own father (a Reformed pastor I believe) for not believing his way, and other men who are most actively and with great expense preaching the word of God.