LAD Poster Servetus ARRESTED In U.S. Senate Chambers

[Maestroh]

Dateline: Tishomingo, Mississippi

Filed by Bob Woodward and Maestroh

Apparently going to a desperate length to avoid debating the illustrious Maestroh on the issue of KJV Onlyism, recently admonished poster Servetus, his wife (Marie Antionette), and their daughter were arrested when they stormed the chamber floor of the U.S. Senate.

For further developments note the following:

http://wizbangblue.com/2007/07/13/christian-extremists-act-out-in-senate-chambers.php

Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god.

ONE MINUTE WITH MAESTROH ROONEY

The recent arrests of three Serbians on the floor of the U.S. Senate not only beg the question of what Bible these folks were reading when they violated the law but more importantly give birth to the question that if Kristen Sugar is Mr. Pavkovic's daughter, does that make him a Sugar daddy?

They clearly could not have been reading the KJV sitting on the night stand collecting dust at Ante's massage parlor due to the simple fact that their New Testament nowhere advocates waltzing into a government building and shouting to the top of their lungs. Perhaps they are still lost in the Old Testament but New Testament Christians could use a more recent example and start in their own house - by turning over the tables of some crooked televangelists.

Personally, I think the guy was afraid of debating Maestroh. And you know - it's a good thing there wasn't a face-to-face debate. Once he began losing, he'd get arrested and Operation Save America would have hailed him a hero. As it is now, he's merely another in the long line of that new Christian culture. We have Christian rock, Christian dating, and Christian psychologists - let's prepare for Christian felons.

And that's today's talking points memo.

[Maestroh]

More on the bundle of misery:


http://tailrank.com/2271895/Theology-Moved-to-the-Senate-and-was-Arrested

[Maestroh]

Pavkovic and most of the religious want to define "American" based on a certain form of conservative Protestantism (they tolerate Catholics as allies right now, but if they ever defeat us secularists, Catholics will be the next to go). Pavkovic has carried his Balkan battles over to America and applied them to a new enemy.

Heck, this guy finds enemies who use a different Bible than he.

And another one here:



http://www.benedictionblogson.com/?p=3267


He says this:

Their behavior is being condemned by Christian groups across the country, because this is not an act of civil disobedience, it is an act of profound ignorance.

[Maestroh]

See July 13


http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/



A picture of His Royal Rudeness

[Tallen]

Ante has a strange way of going about these things. I am sure he feels justified, interrupting the Senate, but I think it is made clear when you go in that you will be arrested if you do.

Now I believe we should all be speaking out with the Gospel of our Lord Jesus, but I don't agree that these folks did it properly. The kingdom of Christ is not of this world, and the way to change the course of a country is for the Christians to preach the Gospel so that hearts can be changed. Yelling out slogans and sound bites does one thing, it draws attention to yourself and your agenda. Some how I have a picture of the Apostles doing something quite different, and although they would avail themselves to the law of the land, they done it respectfully and in a way that would allow them to preach the full Gospel and not just yell sound bites and slogans out.

Color me wrong if you will, but does that kind of thing seem as though it is a fruitful endeavor?

What can be the outcome of such actions, that one can brag about being arrested in the Chambers of the Senate and bring attention to your organization?

I think Ante is struggling under the impression that the US is a Christian nation, which it is not, and that his religion can be promoted by the US government. Once one can unburden themselves from the thought that there is any "Christian nation" anywhere on earth, then one can go about the business of the Kingdom of Christ.

[tking]

What is frightening to me is that one of the LINKS (http://www.benedictionblogson.com/?p=3267) Maestroh posted states this:

"Operation Save America was started by Randall Terry in 1986. Starting Saturday members are in Alabama celebrating Eric Robert Rudolph who killed Birmingham police officer Robert “Sandy” Sanderson and seriously injured Emily Lyons in 1998."

Here's a LINK (http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2007/07/06/operation-save-america-storms-alabama-this-is-not-the-civil-rights-movement) describing the carnage caused by Mr. Rudolph. This is extremism taken to the same limits as terrorism. There is no Christianity in that.

[Tallen]

I have read that some of these groups, I am not saying this about Mr. S because I don't know, have decided to take their "cause" to the most extreme position. They see themselves in a war with the abortionist and feel murder is a justifiable act to save the unborn because it is within a reasonable use of war. That's one reason that you see the abortionist carry guns and guarded heavily, because of that type of threat.

These groups see America as a theocracy, and feel that laws based upon their Biblical principals are in order. The fact of the matter is that America has never been a Christian nation, despite the claims of many who think it has been. America has been in the past a nation with a majority of Christians living here, but that has quickly changed over the last century. The landscape was dominated mostly by Christian groups escaping European oppression and religious intolerance, and coming here to exist without fear of that type of thing. Now, we are dominated by religious groups other than Christian on the east and west coast, and a mix of non-religious, Roman Catholic and Evangelicals in between. The American people have become disconnected from any of their "sectarian" roots. This is a real shame because most of these groups, like what we see in this case, are not connected with any ecclesiastic authority and act from the marching orders of a single personality. They become "parties" supporting the cause of a person, rather than a Christian ministry sent to proclaim the Gospel message. It will never work.

That's my opinion anyway. :medium-smiley-011:

[tking]

The fact of the matter is that America has never been a Christian nation, despite the claims of many who think it has been. America has been in the past a nation with a majority of Christians living here, but that has quickly changed over the last century.

Precisely.


The American people have become disconnected from any of their "sectarian" roots. This is a real shame because most of these groups, like what we see in this case, are not connected with any ecclesiastic authority and act from the marching orders of a single personality. They become "parties" supporting the cause of a person, rather than a Christian ministry sent to proclaim the Gospel message. It will never work.

Yep, and to support a cause has nothing to do with what we have been commissioned to do. It is not our place to administer vengeance; we're clearly told that. Our place is to be about demonstrating the love of Christ and His message of salvation. In fact, it is directly against scripture to raise a hand against the enemy. We are to pray for them, take the abuse, and bless them. Quite a different scenario than what we see with extremists.

[Tallen]

Yep, and to support a cause has nothing to do with what we have been commissioned to do. It is not our place to administer vengeance; we're clearly told that. Our place is to be about demonstrating the love of Christ and His message of salvation. In fact, it is directly against scripture to raise a hand against the enemy. We are to pray for them, take the abuse, and bless them. Quite a different scenario than what we see with extremists.

Well put Terri, and right on. Love our enemies is a hard thing to do when they are murderers, thieves and liars.

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. (1Pe 2:21-25 KJV)

The Greek says, there was no "trick (bait) or decoy" in His mouth. The Lord did not bait people or decoy (hide) His words to deceive them. Many of these groups are deceitful because their words are really baited to draw attention to their cause. They want to draw attention to their group so that they can get their message across.

And when people were yelling out against Him, He did not "rail or yell back" as did Mr. S. That is a demonstration of fleshly thinking, to yell out in public and rail against our enemies. Not unlike those that were yelling at our Lord when He was crucified.

The church needs much prayer to bring the immature who assume leadership, into subjection to the rest of the body. Mr. S is an immature person with a cause, and justifies himself by thinking he is doing a noble thing for the Lord.

[tking]

Many of these groups are deceitful because their words are really baited to draw attention to their cause. They want to draw attention to their group so that they can get their message across.

Oh yes. It's a form of idolatry really. I can't quite figure out how people (and there are many ministries that do this) can read scripture and come away with participating in something that is specifically taught against by Christ.


For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. (1Pe 2:21-25 KJV)


I love that scripture, and notice the bolded part. What a wonderful bit of instruction.


The church needs much prayer to bring the immature who assume leadership, into subjection to the rest of the body.

Amen. And the problem we have in leadership is this flash and charisma mentality in our churches. If the leader is young, attractive, dresses spiffy, sponsors trips (which I despise, incidentally because it's a lure, not a mission), and is "cool," buddy he's in. What in the world is that?! It's such an immature attitude, and it seems to be the "in" thing to do these days. Goodness gracious, the apostles were about as far away from this mentality as one could get! Simply studying, obtaining Degrees, and reeking of coolness do not an apostle make :crying: .

[Tallen]

I think we are on the same page here Terri. :bigtup:

It is refreshing. :loveit:

[tking]

Hmmm...here's the verse of the day.

Psa 141:3 Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.
Psa 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practice wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

[JBaker45]

All I can think of to say is: Wow

[Tallen]

Is that a good wow or a bad one? :sparkle:

[JBaker45]

Is that a good wow or a bad one? :sparkle:
Hahaha.. must be a good one, cause I'm still smilin'


But I just find it somewhat shocking really, when I am reminded just how close I am to the 'action' in this life. :bigO:


And I am thankful that I choose my battles.

[Tallen]

Amen! :bigtup:

[Maestroh]

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/senate_protester_disruption_of.php



check it out:





North Carolina Christian activist Ante Pavkovic says when he prayed loudly as Hindu chaplain Rajan Zed was approaching the Senate podium, he was "standing up for God" and paying tribute to America's founding fathers who openly named "Jesus" in their speeches and documents. Pavkovic, his wife, and his 19-year-old daughter were arrested and charged with misdemeanor unlawful conduct and disrupting Congress. They are scheduled to appear in court July 31.


See this one, too:


http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/



on July 16:



So I guess the lead heckler of the Hindu chaplain who delivered a prayer in the U.S. Senate didn't want to be an obnoxious jerk -- he just had no choice: (http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/senate_protester_disruption_of.php)



hmm....sounds like that free will doctrine bit the dust by this man's own actions.

har har

[Maestroh]

Don't believe him? Check out the audio clip here, (http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/hindu_shouted_down_while_offer.php) where, just as the chaplain is beginning his prayer, Pavkovic and his relatives are clearly heard ... er, shouting. But not shouting shouting! And not in a disruptive way!



MAESTROH:




Isn't this the same guy who falsely accused me of everything under the sun?


I'm sure he wouldn't LIE now, would he?


har har

[Tallen]

It isn't the one Hindu that stands up in a predominently godless institution and prays that's really troubling, its the billion others in the world that are headed to hell that really trouble me.

The freedom of Christ comes by preaching the Gospel message, and that message is to be free of the shackles that men like to teach along with it.

[travelah]

Dateline: Tishomingo, Mississippi

Filed by Bob Woodward and Maestroh

Apparently going to a desperate length to avoid debating the illustrious Maestroh on the issue of KJV Onlyism, recently admonished poster Servetus, his wife (Marie Antionette), and their daughter were arrested when they stormed the chamber floor of the U.S. Senate.

For further developments note the following:

http://wizbangblue.com/2007/07/13/christian-extremists-act-out-in-senate-chambers.php

Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god.

ONE MINUTE WITH MAESTROH ROONEY

The recent arrests of three Serbians on the floor of the U.S. Senate not only beg the question of what Bible these folks were reading when they violated the law but more importantly give birth to the question that if Kristen Sugar is Mr. Pavkovic's daughter, does that make him a Sugar daddy?

They clearly could not have been reading the KJV sitting on the night stand collecting dust at Ante's massage parlor due to the simple fact that their New Testament nowhere advocates waltzing into a government building and shouting to the top of their lungs. Perhaps they are still lost in the Old Testament but New Testament Christians could use a more recent example and start in their own house - by turning over the tables of some crooked televangelists.

Personally, I think the guy was afraid of debating Maestroh. And you know - it's a good thing there wasn't a face-to-face debate. Once he began losing, he'd get arrested and Operation Save America would have hailed him a hero. As it is now, he's merely another in the long line of that new Christian culture. We have Christian rock, Christian dating, and Christian psychologists - let's prepare for Christian felons.

And that's today's talking points memo.

I am sorry, but I think you should rethink your approach. It would appear you are engaged in a personal crusade or vendetta aganst this person. What are you trying to accomplish?

Now, lets be frank here, I have listened to the recording of the event you are describing and it was basically an act of civil disobedience. Do you suppose the fellows who let Peter down in a basket should be regarded with derision by Christians? Allow me to bring it home in a closer manner. Suppose your two elderly neighbors were removed from their home, taken out into the street, blindfolded, hands tied and prepared for gunshot execution. What is your Christian responsibility in this situation?

[Maestroh]

I am sorry, but I think you should rethink your approach. It would appear you are engaged in a personal crusade or vendetta aganst this person. What are you trying to accomplish?

Now, lets be frank here, I have listened to the recording of the event you are describing and it was basically an act of civil disobedience. Do you suppose the fellows who let Peter down in a basket should be regarded with derision by Christians? Allow me to bring it home in a closer manner. Suppose your two elderly neighbors were removed from their home, taken out into the street, blindfolded, hands tied and prepared for gunshot execution. What is your Christian responsibility in this situation?

Trav,

Hope all is going well with your recent move.

Yes, I'm playing it up a little bit. It's sort of amusing, really. Vendetta? I wouldn't go that far nor do I think for a moment that the 'real' reason he got himself arrested was fear to debate.

I did mention it on here because it was only a few days after he'd put his last post here after accusing me of all kinds of things I didn't do. Let's face it: if he'll falsely accuse me of things, why should I think he's telling the truth about why he did whatever he did in the Senate chamber?

Personally, I think such a person has too much time on his hands.

I don't think the instances you cite really are an analogous comparison - although I doubt that is your point anyway. What did Mr. Pavkovic actually think he was doing besides getting himself noticed?

I seem to recall Jesus saying something about shaking the dust off your feet when a town rejects you - not waltzing back in and praying real loud like a drama queen.

Now in light of your other scenario - the execution one - I have no clue. I learned a long time ago not to say what you would do in a particular situation because you just might surprise yourself.

I will say this, however - were I in my home with the gun nearby, I'd attempt to shoot the kidnapper.

And btw - for better or worse, it's shoot to kill. Dead men don't call lawyers. If that's revealing of my own heart then so be it - but I figure the kidnapper has chosen Hell by his 'own free will.'

To be honest, I don't know what the answer is. And yes, I'm having fun with Mr. Pavkovic - but that's ok, I had quite a bit of fun with him when he was here.

[travelah]

Trav,

Hope all is going well with your recent move.

Yes, I'm playing it up a little bit. It's sort of amusing, really. Vendetta? I wouldn't go that far nor do I think for a moment that the 'real' reason he got himself arrested was fear to debate.

I did mention it on here because it was only a few days after he'd put his last post here after accusing me of all kinds of things I didn't do. Let's face it: if he'll falsely accuse me of things, why should I think he's telling the truth about why he did whatever he did in the Senate chamber?

Personally, I think such a person has too much time on his hands.

I don't think the instances you cite really are an analogous comparison - although I doubt that is your point anyway. What did Mr. Pavkovic actually think he was doing besides getting himself noticed?

I seem to recall Jesus saying something about shaking the dust off your feet when a town rejects you - not waltzing back in and praying real loud like a drama queen.

Now in light of your other scenario - the execution one - I have no clue. I learned a long time ago not to say what you would do in a particular situation because you just might surprise yourself.

I will say this, however - were I in my home with the gun nearby, I'd attempt to shoot the kidnapper.

And btw - for better or worse, it's shoot to kill. Dead men don't call lawyers. If that's revealing of my own heart then so be it - but I figure the kidnapper has chosen Hell by his 'own free will.'

To be honest, I don't know what the answer is. And yes, I'm having fun with Mr. Pavkovic - but that's ok, I had quite a bit of fun with him when he was here.

Thanks for the reply. The move is going well so far although living aline here for now is not a lot of fun. In any event, the scenario I offered relally had civil authority pulling those souls into the street. I am not sure myself what I would do.

[Joe S]

Maybe our Finneyite isn't doing his thing to be seen of men or to glory in himself. Maybe he has stated lies from ignorance rather than malice, and his severe admonishment and civil disobedience is representative of a fervent zeal and fearless committment to what he sincerely believes to be right.

His zeal reminds me very much of the opening verses in Romans 10, Paul granted the unbelieving Jew that they were zealous, but their efforts were futile and wasted because they would not submit themselves to righteousness of God but sought their own, not recognizing Christ as the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe.

This is exactly what Finney did, seeking righteousness before God through keeping the law, which if sin is recognized for what it really means is impossible, so sin is redifined to accomodate the failings of man. Of course, as a safety net salvation is always re-attainable to the Christian who inevitably fails to keep even the perverted weakened law. So the new birth, sanctification, justification, adoption- all these terms must be redifined within the Finney theology.

So I don't go so far as to question Ante Paklovic's convictions or sincerity, I'll give him that. I even admire his fearlessness and zeal in a way. But faith is only as good as what you put it in, and counting on one's own merits plus Christ's works is another gospel, one that leads you through the wide gate down the broad path.

[Maestroh]

Maybe our Finneyite isn't doing his thing to be seen of men or to glory in himself. Maybe he has stated lies from ignorance rather than malice, and his severe admonishment and civil disobedience is representative of a fervent zeal and fearless committment to what he sincerely believes to be right.

His zeal reminds me very much of the opening verses in Romans 10, Paul granted the unbelieving Jew that they were zealous, but their efforts were futile and wasted because they would not submit themselves to righteousness of God but sought their own, not recognizing Christ as the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe.
.

And I've told him as much so we concur here.





So I don't go so far as to question Ante Paklovic's convictions or sincerity, I'll give him that. I even admire his fearlessness and zeal in a way. But faith is only as good as what you put it in, and counting on one's own merits plus Christ's works is another gospel, one that leads you through the wide gate down the broad path.


I guess I view it differently for right or wrong - probably wrong. He has no grace towards those who hold different views on such things as TC or the Calvin-Arminius view or CCM or the Brownsville Revival or much of anything else.

One who disagrees with Mr Pavkovic is slammed as a 'liar.' I tend to think that folks who accuse so quickly as he does do so to cover up their own failings - failings they know they have but because of the flawed Finney infrastructure they can't deal with them.

And since folks will immediately jump to defending themselves, his Kleenex plus saliva arguments are hardly ever examined.

I tend to think he's so ungracious because he knows so little about it. Unlike him, however, I will not go as far as saying he's 'unsaved' because such is the usurping of the role of Christ.