Global Warming

[Tallen]

Is there anyone that doesn't think the world is warming at the present time?

[JBaker45]

Is there anyone that doesn't think the world is warming at the present time?
Unfortunately, short term measurements are not statistically significant.

[TigerBunny]

Is there anyone that doesn't think the world is warming at the present time?

I think all the data points to the fact that it is ( and has ). Now the fur flying debate comes down to "is man causing it?". To this I answer yes and no. Man does have an affect on his environment but I believe that we have yet to see it touch on the warming and cooling of our planet.

I'm in the apparently controversial camp ( again! ) that believes that the "carbon footprint" stuff is rubbish...at least for another 600 years or so. I'm watching the science around sun activity being the major mover and shaker with great interest.

[Tallen]

Unfortunately, short term measurements are not statistically significant.

Whether that is true or not, and I think it is btw, I still think we are in a natural cycle of warming which is aided by man-made pollution. I think, for instance, that gas bubbles trapped in polar ice probably release more carbon per year than made-made release of carbon, but that it all adds up to a cycle where the earth is warming at the present time.

I also think, that we will soon be entering a period of global cooling. Some say we have already reached that point or it may happen within the next couple of years.

It seems to me that there is a cycle of global warming and cooling that happens about every 100,000 years or so. And according to the charts I have seen on this, we are very close to a point that we will go into a long term cooling event, an ice age. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_14.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

[Tallen]

I think all the data points to the fact that it is ( and has ). Now the fur flying debate comes down to "is man causing it?". To this I answer yes and no. Man does have an affect on his environment but I believe that we have yet to see it touch on the warming and cooling of our planet.

I'm in the apparently controversial camp ( again! ) that believes that the "carbon footprint" stuff is rubbish...at least for another 600 years or so. I'm watching the science around sun activity being the major mover and shaker with great interest.

I tend to agree with you. Seems at the current time we are in a warm-up.

Check out this site, Click me (http://globalweatheroscillations.com/GlobalWarming.html).

[TigerBunny]

Whether that is true or not, and I think it is btw, I still think we are in a natural cycle of warming which is aided by man-made pollution. I think, for instance, that gas bubbles trapped in polar ice probably release more carbon per year than made-made release of carbon, but that it all adds up to a cycle where the earth is warming at the present time.

I also think, that we will soon be entering a period of global cooling. Some say we have already reached that point or it may happen within the next couple of years.

It seems to me that there is a cycle of global warming and cooling that happens about every 100,000 years or so. And according to the charts I have seen on this, we are very close to a point that we will go into a long term cooling event, an ice age. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_14.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

Not to derail but I was recently watching a HC broadcast on "The Little Ice Age" which most scientists are blaming on the ocean. Interesting stuff and calls into question what we define as an "ice age".

Did you want links to stuff for this thread Ted or are we just tossing opinions out and seeing where it goes? I also remember vaguely that there were several "world wide" calamities, aside from the flood, mentioned in the Bible. Wish I could find that link again. I don't think it was on AiG.

[TigerBunny]

I tend to agree with you. Seems at the current time we are in a warm-up.

Check out this site, Click me (http://globalweatheroscillations.com/GlobalWarming.html).

Ah...very cool ( no pun intended ). Thanks Ted!

[Tallen]

Not to derail but I was recently watching a HC broadcast on "The Little Ice Age" which most scientists are blaming on the ocean. Interesting stuff and calls into question what we define as an "ice age".

Did you want links to stuff for this thread Ted or are we just tossing opinions out and seeing where it goes? I also remember vaguely that there were several "world wide" calamities, aside from the flood, mentioned in the Bible. Wish I could find that link again. I don't think it was on AiG.

Links are welcome.

[tking]

Not to derail but I was recently watching a HC broadcast on "The Little Ice Age" which most scientists are blaming on the ocean. Interesting stuff and calls into question what we define as an "ice age".

Did you want links to stuff for this thread Ted or are we just tossing opinions out and seeing where it goes? I also remember vaguely that there were several "world wide" calamities, aside from the flood, mentioned in the Bible. Wish I could find that link again. I don't think it was on AiG.


I saw that same show...what was it...between the 1300s and 1800s...something like that?

[TigerBunny]

I saw that same show...what was it...between the 1300s and 1800s...something like that?

According to the HC it was that yes:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&showId=173249

Unfortunately I cannot access the link Ted gave us to check this against thier charts.

I tried to find some links for sun activity for you folks but apparently there is a huge movement among those supporting the "green effect" to bury such. I hate conspiracy stuff so I'm loath to post any such links. It's difficult to look at these arguments and not scratch your head considering the multi-billion dollar business it has become and the abuses of said business that pop into the news.

*Edit* here's one with a very interesting debate. I don't pretend to understand all the science behind it but the motivations of the "combatants" are clearly stated.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

[Tallen]

Unfortunately I cannot access the link Ted gave us to check this against thier charts.

Hmmm, I check it out and it works for me. I dunno!?!

Here it is again:

http://globalweatheroscillations.com/GlobalWarming.html

[TigerBunny]

Hmmm, I check it out and it works for me. I dunno!?!

Here it is again:

http://globalweatheroscillations.com/GlobalWarming.html

That one works. It may have been network issues on my side. It doesn't look like the charts cover that time period ( 1300-1850 ).

[Tallen]

That one works. It may have been network issues on my side. It doesn't look like the charts cover that time period ( 1300-1850 ).

I believe it is mentioned in one of the articles, though. I believe it is the one that I linked to. See where he describes the cyclical warming and cooling events over the last 1000 years or so.

[TigerBunny]

I believe it is mentioned in one of the articles, though. I believe it is the one that I linked to. See where he describes the cyclical warming and cooling events over the last 1000 years or so.

Ah...I see. The charts are a little hard to read for me. The time period does seem to fall in one of the downswings. It would be interesting to create a human historic timeline, along with this data, of the last 5-10,000 years.

I find this sort of stuff amusing considering I'm in the YEC camp ( if only to poke some rather strident folks in the nose ) and I really enjoy "hard science" from a layman's point of view.

[Tallen]

Ah...I see. The charts are a little hard to read for me. The time period does seem to fall in one of the downswings. It would be interesting to create a human historic timeline, along with this data, of the last 5-10,000 years.

I find this sort of stuff amusing considering I'm in the YEC camp ( if only to poke some rather strident folks in the nose ) and I really enjoy "hard science" from a layman's point of view.

I am looking for the charts for the warming and cooling cycles for the last 400,000 years. Drawn from ice cores drilled and examined, for that period of time. It is those charts that tell a real amazing story and one can see the cycles clearly. But as I heard one "expert" say recently, global warming and cooling is determined by what part of a curve one decides to use on a particular chart or amount of data. The current "warming alarm" is based upon fairly short term and predetermined data, that will prove that point. And as he pointed out, that is the political correct thing to do right now if you want your career to be taken seriously by your peers.

[TigerBunny]

I am looking for the charts for the warming and cooling cycles for the last 400,000 years. Drawn from ice cores drilled and examined, for that period of time. It is those charts that tell a real amazing story and one can see the cycles clearly. But as I heard one "expert" say recently, global warming and cooling is determined by what part of a curve one decides to use on a particular chart or amount of data. The current "warming alarm" is based upon fairly short term and predetermined data, that will prove that point. And as he pointed out, that is the political correct thing to do right now if you want your career to be taken seriously by your peers.

Had a wonderful discussion last night with a pastor friend who came over. He's bound and determined to teach and I'm more than happy to learn. The discussion was almost completely on "Gap theory or theology", three different ways the word "Beginning" is used, and what Scripture seems to back it up.

One of our main focuses was in Jude:
Jud 1:5 But I intend to remind you, you once knowing these things, that the Lord having delivered a people out of the land of Egypt, in the second place destroyed the ones not believing.
Jud 1:6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise, indeed, also these dreaming ones even defile flesh, and despise rulership, and speak evil of glories.

[Tallen]

Had a wonderful discussion last night with a pastor friend who came over. He's bound and determined to teach and I'm more than happy to learn. The discussion was almost completely on "Gap theory or theology", three different ways the word "Beginning" is used, and what Scripture seems to back it up.

One of our main focuses was in Jude:
Jud 1:5 But I intend to remind you, you once knowing these things, that the Lord having delivered a people out of the land of Egypt, in the second place destroyed the ones not believing.
Jud 1:6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise, indeed, also these dreaming ones even defile flesh, and despise rulership, and speak evil of glories.

How would these be used in a Gap Theory? :bigthink:

[TigerBunny]

How would these be used in a Gap Theory? :bigthink:

When did the angels fall and why? According to Gap Theory ( If I understood correctly ) it was before Adam and Eve and therefore before "In the Beginning" or somewhere in there somehow. I don't pretend to understand everything that we discussed but it was a good talk.

More stuff for me to study...Joy. :)

How does this relate to the present topic? Time and large amounts of it according to science. Time for 500,000 years of ice. /shrug

[Tallen]

When did the angels fall and why? According to Gap Theory ( If I understood correctly ) it was before Adam and Eve and therefore before "In the Beginning" or somewhere in there somehow. I don't pretend to understand everything that we discussed but it was a good talk.

I'm thinking on that one.

[TigerBunny]

I'm thinking on that one.

Kewl...I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it Ted. :bigtup:

In the meantime I'm digging about trying to get a grasp on this subject.

[Tallen]

...is warming at about the same rate that the earth is? If that is true, it can't be caused by humans, and throws a lot of the "stuff" we've been told about global warming into question.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

[TigerBunny]

...is warming at about the same rate that the earth is? If that is true, it can't be caused by humans, and throws a lot of the "stuff" we've been told about global warming into question.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

I haven't looked at the link yet but it wouldn't suprise me. Thanks Ted!

[JBaker45]

...is warming at about the same rate that the earth is? If that is true, it can't be caused by humans, and throws a lot of the "stuff" we've been told about global warming into question.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
I think we should send Al Gore to investigate :big_teeth_2:

[Tallen]

I think we should send Al Gore to investigate :big_teeth_2:

Yeah, he could fly there in his private jet, and pollute space all the way, then tell us that we shouldn't pollute.

Let's see: appox 40,000,000 miles divide 300 miles per hour is 133333 hours divided by 24 hours in a day is 5555 days divided by 365 days is a little over fifteen years we wouldn't have to hear him. :medium-smiley-011:

That would be great, a 30 year round trip in his private jet. That would be good for the father of the internet.